Some colonies are determined to swarm

[mazzamazda]

Not applicable to this hive but I try and use these swarmy hives for starter hives, you get rid of the queen and get something useful in return. I can expect 45-48 out of 50 queens started from these so long as they are big enough.

 

[B+.]

Not applicable to this hive but I try and use these swarmy hives for starter hives, you get rid of the queen and get something useful in return.

Thats a very good plan. Unfortunately, it wasn't my colony to do with as I pleased

 

[Goran]

Well congratulations! You have made it to another persons ignore list

Life is too short, let it go.. Simply don't reply.. If you are going down to certain people's level you will lose cause they'll beat you with experience..

 

[Finman]

I don't think that reduced swarming necessarily equates to reduced reproductive drive because my test colonies still produce a healthy quota of drones. Since they inherit all 16 chromosomes from the queen, this is a less risky way of her influencing the next generation. I mean to say that a colony can produce many drones at no real risk to its survival, but, it puts itself at great risk by swarming.

To rear drones and to arise swarming fever are surely leaded by differet genes.

When a human domesticates animals, they are based on mutation genes and selection.
It is not possible that the whole sexual behaviour is changed.

And if the bee strain stops drone/male rearing, that strain stops to exist on globe.

Russian bee has an odd habit. It makes all the time queen cells, even if the colony does not swarm. It is one answer against varroa in eastern Siberia. Russian bee is genetically closest to Caucasian.

Scutella has another behaviour. If the colony is disturbed, the whole colony may abscond and move to a new place. And scutella has natural migration swarming habit, when it moves to more favorable pastures.
.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I see that open minded discussion is alive and well on this forum.

That Bananas bit was a joke, and rather a good one, agreeing with you.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I don't think that reduced swarming necessarily equates to reduced reproductive drive because my test colonies still produce a healthy quota of drones. Since they inherit all 16 chromosomes from the queen, this is a less risky way of her influencing the next generation. I mean to say that a colony can produce many drones at no real risk to its survival, but, it puts itself at great risk by swarming.

Honey bee colonies are hermaphrodite. They have a male-based spray-it-around mating strategy and a female-based invest-and-nurture strategy. Swarming is the latter, so turning it off does reproduce the reproductive drive. But, as @derekm pointed out, that can be a very successful strategy for the genes as long as humans are around. We don't see much "Selfish Gene" talk on here and it does help understand. Laying workers are a simple example.

 

[B+.]

that can be a very successful strategy for the genes as long as humans are around..

I must correct a missunderstanding that may be going around: the swarming impulse is not completely switched off. We are just selecting colonies for cultivation that swarm less than the mean.(i.e. they make little, or no, swarming preparations in the first year (or two)), so, they aren't completely dependent on humans for their survival. They are just more manageable.

 

[user 6228]

I cant believe that for the last 3 years iv been beating myself up for messing up the A/S when all along I was doomed to fail 50% of the time
Only realised the odds of failure by reading a throwaway comment last week on the forum
When the mega experienced people on here recommend an A/s is performed on a hive that swarm cells are found are they really recommending a Pagden or a modified version of Snelgrove?
Maybe Pagden should always come with a failure warning

Yes we also had poor results ( when we managed to find the queen). You are trying to persuade a proportion of the bees that they have swarmed , by providing behavioral cues.
An A/S that is a closer mimic to a real swarming may therefore have the better/ more cues and a better success rate. The problem is this may consume more time and space than you have available.
We have both, so we use a method where the bees cluster with their queen for an 1/2 hour or so hanging from a "tree" before "finding" their new nest.
So far its worked 100% (sample of about ~ 16 ).

The effort and success rate in performing the A/S needs to be balanced against the effort, difficulty and potential pitfalls of having "less swarmy" bees.

 

[Cussword]

Y
We use a method where the bees cluster with their queen for an 1/2 hour or so hanging from a "tree" before "finding" their new nest.
So far its worked 100% (sample of about ~ 16 ).

Any pictures Derek? Please.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Try looking up Taranov Split or Taranov Swarm Control, it's described on a few blogs both in this country and across the pond.

 

[Obee1]

An A/S that is a closer mimic to a real swarming may therefore have the better/ more cues and a better success rate. The problem is this may consume more time and space than you have available.
We have both, so we use a method where the bees cluster with their queen for an 1/2 hour or so hanging from a "tree" before "finding" their new nest.
So far its worked 100%

How do you do this? In particular I'm wondering about the clustering part.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I might advise against trying if you have your colony in the back garden. Taranov involves shaking all the bees out

 

[JWF]

Taranov is definitely not a method for urban garden beekeeping! Unless you have very very understanding neighbours lol!

 

[Finman]

.
No one shake all bees out, not even Taranov. It kills brood.

 

[Finman]

Taranov is definitely not a method for urban garden beekeeping! Unless you have very very understanding neighbours lol!

IT is a shook swarm. Nothing else.
.

Taranov's swarm board goes already to space science....piece of some boar against the entrance. Or dry twigs.

.

 

[Finman]

.
This goes again into outer ionosphere. ...suddenly, when some hive swarms.



.

 

[Cussword]

******

 

[Tremyfro]

Inspection finished just before the heavens opened and thunder rolling across the hills!
Gave a new queen cell to a nuc from which the queen has disappeared.
The langstroth bees are having a laugh! God knows how many queen cells...so they must have lost their virgin queen. Took them down and left one open queen cell. If they don't make a queen....blue queen will be repatriated.
Beehauses doing well....put a clearing board on one super so hoping for a little honey.
There seems to be plenty of stores in the hives but the flow has stopped with this unsettled weather. They were doing so well too!
The colony which had the nosema has made a great comeback and I am so pleased with them. On double brood now and the queen is laying in the top one too. I'm hoping as soon as I am a bit more recovered from my op to rehome them into a beehaus.

 

[Millet]

Inspection finished just before the heavens opened and thunder rolling across the hills!
Gave a new queen cell to a nuc from which the queen has disappeared.
The langstroth bees are having a laugh! God knows how many queen cells...so they must have lost their virgin queen. Took them down and left one open queen cell. If they don't make a queen....blue queen will be repatriated.
Beehauses doing well....put a clearing board on one super so hoping for a little honey.
There seems to be plenty of stores in the hives but the flow has stopped with this unsettled weather. They were doing so well too!
The colony which had the nosema has made a great comeback and I am so pleased with them. On double brood now and the queen is laying in the top one too. I'm hoping as soon as I am a bit more recovered from my op to rehome them into a beehaus.

Fingers crossed you will be firing on all cylinders soon enough.

 

[Obee1]

Tremy How is the hygienic queen doing? Must say I'm a little disappointed about the langstroth - I assume this is your flow hive colony? I was looking forward to a flow hive grand opening tea party at yours.