Some colonies are determined to swarm

[B+.]

. When I cut my drone cells, fever Italian drones are in the air.

.

You cut drone cells? why?

We are clearly on a different page with regard to bee breeding Finman

 

[Fatbee]

There wasn't a huge drone population.
Compared to my test colonies which have a whole frame available for drone production, this colony had far fewer

Edit: I'm sorry. I think I misunderstood what you were saying. Do you mean my test colonies or this ladies colony?
My test colonies which show no real interest in swarming still have plenty of drones (Year 1 and 2), but this may be because I gave them a drone comb. This ladies colony had fewer drones than the test colonies even though it swarmed.
I see what you are saying though: a colony which is attempting to reproduce would want to get its genes out there. Are you saying that they would increase their drone production at the same time as making queen cells? I have never noticed this (although a queenless colony or one with a virgin will support more drones).

I was just wondering if swarming desires are reduced why they would invest in precious resources on so many drones. Although I do realise that drones may have other purposes we're not aware of given the number most colonies produce. My TBH has higher drone production and I also notice that each comb has a bit of everything going on e.g drone, worker brood in all stages, stores. Don't see the same layouts as much on my nationals

 

[B+.]

I was just wondering if swarming desires are reduced why they would invest in precious resources on so many drones. Although I do realise that drones may have other purposes we're not aware of given the number most colonies produce. My TBH has higher drone production and I also notice that each comb has a bit of everything going on e.g drone, worker brood in all stages, stores. Don't see the same layouts as much on my nationals

I don't think that reduced swarming necessarily equates to reduced reproductive drive because my test colonies still produce a healthy quota of drones. Since they inherit all 16 chromosomes from the queen, this is a less risky way of her influencing the next generation. I mean to say that a colony can produce many drones at no real risk to its survival, but, it puts itself at great risk by swarming.

 

[Fatbee]

I mean to say that a colony can produce many drones at no real risk to its survival, but, it puts itself at great risk by swarming.

So are you saying that bees have a flawed evolution and have taken swarming too far? If they don't swarm how do they increase their population numbers because eventually something would happen to a colony that just supersedes such as fires, pests, predators etc and that strain would die out. By swarming they are spreading the risk of that bloodline continuing.

 

[Finman]

You cut drone cells? why?

We are clearly on a different page with regard to bee breeding Finman

Yes we are. I try to make honey. I select best pastures.

I have told, that I do not breed bees. My apiary is too small to that.

Last summer I bought to half of my apiary a new beestock. The seller has 1500 hives. Queens have been very good this spring.

It is ridiculous to imagine, that I select best mother queen from 15 colonies. The result is only inbreeding.

This is one way to use genetic knowledge.
.
I go my way and you go your way.



.

 

[Finman]

You cut drone cells? why?

To reduce mites. You know that.

 

[Tonyatcwfarm]

So 75% won't - another 50% less effective than a Pagden - which is poor enough.

I cant believe that for the last 3 years iv been beating myself up for messing up the A/S when all along I was doomed to fail 50% of the time
Only realised the odds of failure by reading a throwaway comment last week on the forum
When the mega experienced people on here recommend an A/s is performed on a hive that swarm cells are found are they really recommending a Pagden or a modified version of Snelgrove?
Maybe Pagden should always come with a failure warning

 

[Finman]

I cant believe that for the last 3 years iv been beating myself up for messing up the A/S when all along I was doomed to fail 50% of the time

I have very well succesrate with Italians, but Carniolans are much more stubborn to handle.
.
I know nothing about Padgens and about Snellgroves. I just do. Very important is to put the AS on foundations. They draw one or two boxes in a week.
.
.

 

[B+.]

So are you saying that bees have a flawed evolution and have taken swarming too far? If they don't swarm how do they increase their population numbers because eventually something would happen to a colony that just supersedes such as fires, pests, predators etc and that strain would die out. By swarming they are spreading the risk of that bloodline continuing.

Lets not muddy the waters by talking about evolution and selective breeding at the same time.
Clearly, there is an evolutonary need for swarming. It reinvigourates the colony by providing a young, fertile queen while moving it physically to a new location (leaving pests and diseases behind). In selective breeding, we are doing much the same thing except we are also influencing the direction of that evolution in a way that suits us, just as we have done with other farm animals. Of course, we carry a responsibility to ensure that we do not effect the vitality of the stock.
The breeding group I am a member of uses island mating stations and instrumental insemination to increase the occurence of desirable traits (see http://edepot.wur.nl/326724 and https://www.researchgate.net/public...and_swarming_behaviour_in_Austrian_honey_bees).

 

[Finman]

Lets not muddy the waters by talking about evolution and selective breeding at the same time.
Clearly, there is an evolutonary need for swarming. It reinvigourates the colony by providing a young, fertile queen while moving it physically to a new location (leaving pests and diseases behind). In selective breeding, we are doing much the same thing except we are also influencing the direction of that evolution in a way that suits us, just as we have done with other farm animals. Of course, we carry a responsibility to ensure that we do not affact the vitality of the stock.
]).

That is not an explanation. First of all bees select an old hives where old combs stink.

 

[B+.]

That is not an explanation. First of all bees select an old hives where old combs stink.

I thought you were some sort of geneticist Finman. Whenever you talk, all I hear is white noise

 

[Finman]

I thought you were some sort of geneticist Finman. Whenever you talk, all I hear is white noise

I think that you are not valid estimate my evolution or genetic knowledge, and not either my beekeeping skils. You have not basic knowledge to that.

I wonder why my academic education is less valuable than your hobby knowledge. Queen breeding does not make you a biologist. And your climatology skills. Funny level. When you are from Great Britain, you think that it makes you great.


.

 

[B+.]

I think that you are not valid estimate my evolution or genetic knowledge. You have not basic knowledge to that.

I have yet to hear a single reasoned explanation from you for anything you have said. If your knowledge is so extensive, then, please enlighten us, because all you ever do is tell us how great you are yet you don't even raise your own queens

 

[Finman]

I have yet to hear a single reasoned explanation from you for anything you have said. If your knowledge is so extensive, then, please enlighten us, because all you ever do is tell us how great you are yet you don't even raise your own queens

I measure my skills with honey yield. That is my goal all the time. Some measure, how they paint their hives.

I have raised my queens. I buy good mother queens, and rear first generation. You like it or does not like. It has no meaning. Yes, I even raise. I have done it 50 years. Nothing odd in that. First strains were Caucasians. Origin from Canada.

Even you have not reared your Carniolans. You bought them first. Your style does not make competent to bark other's style.
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Whenever you talk, all I hear is white noise

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I was just wondering if swarming desires are reduced why they would invest in precious resources on so many drones.

They need drones to get queens mated - whether swarm queens or supersedure

 

[B+.]

Even you have not reared your Carniolans. You bought them first.
.

Be consistent Finman. You have told so many different versions of this story over the last year that I frankly don't believe anything you say anymore.
You are right about one thing. I have spent a lot of money over the years on breeding stock. I haven't stopped there though. Far from it.

 

[Finman]

I thought you were some sort of geneticist Finman. Whenever you talk, all I hear is white noise

Yeah. Most people hear what they want to hear.

You have lack of basick knowledge. Thats all. I understand very well all what you say.
. But objectivity is not one of your best virtues. But who lifts the cat's tail if the cat himself.

 

[Finman]

. You have told so many different versions of this story over the last year that I frankly don't believe anything you say anymore.
it.

I have done many things during 50 years. I will be bored to continue in same way. I do not need your belief. And I do not like, if somebody comes to say to me, what I must do with my bees.

 

[B+.]

I have done many things during 50 years.

Well congratulations! You have made it to another persons ignore list