Snelgrove board

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deemann1

Field Bee
Joined
Mar 25, 2017
Messages
663
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Location
Ireland
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
20+ nucs
I'm just thinking ahead and am looking into building a snelgrove board for swarm control.
Is this a good method for increase?
Will I save the honey crop with this method?
 
There those who think it works.

Personally, I prefer a simple artificial swarm method.

Ask around the Bee Farmers as to how many use it and take it from there.

In most activities, there are the gadget aficionados.

PH
 
It's as good as any other. Like all of them it depends on keeping a good timetable. At least it keeps things under one roof, but uses what can be a complicated bit of kit, which sits idle most of the time. Many different methods, some better suited to different scenarios/ situations. Welsh bee keepers site has some good booklets to download by Wally Shaw
 
Single-doored split board and a 180 degree turn of the hive after a week is probably easier to manage to get the same result. Split board can double as a floor in between times if needed.
 
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Personally, I prefer a simple artificial swarm method.

Interesting to hear what peoples favorite artificial swarm methods are and why.
As a hobbyist I have more time per hive than a bee-farmer can probably spare.
Horsley boards are simplified Snelgrove's and having boards sitting around most of the year is pretty normal, bit like Miller feeders, clearer boards etc. Not sure why this would be perceived as a downside.
Pagden I've found frustrating, it simply doesn't work for my local bees but seems fine on lower swarming strains, but it's downside is it requires lots of room and hive stands.
 
Pagden I've found frustrating, it simply doesn't work for my local bees but seems fine on lower swarming strains, but it's downside is it requires lots of room and hive stands.

I don't think anything is 100% especially when user error is added (but no-one ever owns up to that ;) )
Vertical AS helps with space and kit - one extra brood box and a simple floor. But with 14x12 it is not for the weak of back!
 
What I do is to make up nucs then reunite later. No messing about with switching boxes around and built in insurance for mating failures.

PH
 
Depending upon whether I want to make increase or reunite ...

Nucs for the former, or a vertical split for the latter using a simple split board.

PH has explained the benefit of a nuc already. Vertical split I find easy and I then just unite again over newspaper to requeen as needed.

My split boards get used for other purposes during the season - floors on bait hives (small entrance = good), crownboards, covers for stacked supers in store etc., so they earn their keep.

ITLD has previously posted how he makes his split boards from Correx (perhaps on SBAi, not here). I've also made them like this, but used 4mm Correx which is a bit on the thin side.

Cheap though ;)
 
What I do is to make up nucs then reunite later. No messing about with switching boxes around and built in insurance for mating failures.

PH
Yup, I like and use the nuc method myself, but sometimes find myself at an out apiary with not enough nucs. And on double brood it can sometimes be difficult to find the queen. So I vary according to circumstances. Hence always carry some form of division board.
Also depends if they are F1 Buckfast's ....which I do not want to go to F2....and whether I have any spare queens/frames of larvae from Breeder queens available to ensure their next queen is F1 etc etc (and oh how easy is it to miss a swarm cell!!!....they do tuck them away in some unlikely places.)
 
My split boards get used for other purposes during the season - floors on bait hives (small entrance = good), crownboards, covers for stacked supers in store etc., so they earn their keep.

Every one of our crown boards is a split board, so it's always readily to hand.

Simple crown board with bee space batten on both sides, incorporating a twisting entrance. Feed hole to allow for gauze, newspaper, etc.

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Double bee space comes in very handy at times if you are on top bee space and is rarely braced unless they are desperate for space.

There's a 'Beekeeping in a Nutshell' booklet from Northern Bee Books called 'Swarm Control' that describes the simplified split board and its use for vertical split swarm controls. My father wrote it about 30 years ago (the method wasn't new then, he certainly didn't invent it); I drew up the 3D wireframe illustrations for it in AutoCAD when I was about 12-14 ;)

As a nod to Snelgrove the original boards had one twisting entrance above and below, on opposite sides. Dad can only remember a handful of instances when both entrances have been used; one closeable entrance is more than adequate these days.
 

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Thanks for replying
I like the sound of the split board easy to make too
What's the process for the split board
In use ??
 
As a nod to Snelgrove the original boards had one twisting entrance above and below, on opposite sides. Dad can only remember a handful of instances when both entrances have been used; one closeable entrance is more than adequate these days.

They had a total of 6 twisting entrances in three pairs with one leading into upper box and one into lower. Close the top one off and open the bottom one to bleed the foragers who were using this entrance into the lower box to keep a decent sized workforce. Open another top one on a different side for new foragers to re-orientate to.
Something you can't do as easily with a single entrance.
snellgrove-boarda.jpg
 
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Sorry to jump on the thread but how easy is the nuc method for somebody new to beekeeping????
Is it in very top level terms . Remove queen and some brood and stores to a nuc sited away from the main hive and feed.... and then deal with the queen cells as you would do by reducing them to 1 or 2
 
They had a total of 6 twisting entrances in three pairs with one leading into upper box and one into lower. Close the top one off and open the bottom one to bleed the foragers who were using this entrance into the lower box to keep a decent sized workforce. Open another top one on a different side for new foragers to re-orientate to.
Something you can't do as easily with a single entrance.
snellgrove-boarda.jpg

But it's an unnecessary faff. One door, one principal intervention to confuse/redirect to the new entrance, job done. No fiddling, no trying to remember whether it's door 3 on day 6 or door 6 on day 3, etc. ;)

Snelgrove was reputedly a believer of the Gerstung theory which (wrongly) proposed that the trigger for swarming was that house bees automatically produced brood food; an excess of house bees meant that there was an excess of brood food... in order to use up that brood food, first the workers raised drones (because they ate more than workers), then if there was still excess they raised queens (because they ate even more than drones).

Appealing idea, but wrong, but this is what is behind Snelgrove's repeated and unnecessary bleeding off of workers from one side of the split to another. One major depopulation was all that was generally required - and that is achieved by a simple (and single) re-direction of the flying bees in most artificial swarm methods.

This all assumes that the swarming triggers are congestion and/or queen substance production/distribution. If they are inherently swarmy bees they may still try to go anyway...

Snelgrove's systems do work, generally, but they are the equivalent of turning right three times in order to turn left. Snelgrove still has traction amongst beekeepers because he produced a detailed step-by-step system and a gadget. To the beekeeper repeatedly bemused or caught out by swarming, it looks like salvation because it's clearly more complicated than all the other methods which don't seem to be working... :)
 
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But it's an unnecessary faff. One door, one principal intervention to confuse/redirect to the new entrance, job done.

It would be good if we went back to first principals here and you were kind enough to explain
how you use your single entrance boards. Are you using them as swarm prevention (AKA Snelgrove 1) or after swarm cells are found (AKA Snelgrove 2 ....and variations) i.e where is the queen in your split. I'm assuming you are on double brood as this where I think Snelgrove's methods work well as no extra boxes to find, they are already there. Perhaps a few frames of brood to redistribute to other hives.
I'm no expert on using Snelgrove's methods, I've just used them for the last few years...but to date his principal's and my own experience of keeping queen and nurse bees together for a few days after queen cells are seen (method 2) so they tear down all the initial queen cells and save you the hassle has worked very well for me. ....yes I know you have to keep at it after you move HM down as she has laid eggs...but she is easy to find as there are not so many bees about in the top box. Easy peasy for a hobbyist, perhaps too much work and time needed for a bee-farmer? Not trying to diss bee farmers but hobbyist vs Professional do have different priorities.
I agree Snelgrove's thought's about the reasons for swarming were wrong, but they were based on the current ideas at the time he lived (and now known to be erroneous), but I don't think denigrating him because the science of those times wasn't up to date is appropriate. His method is one of several that do work (some of the time!!).
I'm not sure why you think bleeding off foragers back into the honey collection part of the split is so bad. Over a 3 or 4 week period this is a lot of bees. As a bee farmer....perhaps run more hives....as a hobbyist more honey from less hives is a good principal to work from.
But if your methods using a single entrance on a board are simpler and involve much less work then a detailed explanation of their nuances would be very much appreciated.
 
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If they are inherently swarmy bees they may still try to go anyway...

That I wouldn't disagree with.
Come and meet my local bees...annual swarmers, some were bi and some were tri annual. It was why I gave up using them...that and their aggression.
 
Remind me to post re the nucs as thngs are a bit hectic here at the moment, trying to dodge the weather and build a foundation for my new shed.

PH
 

Thnaks for that. One can never have too many swarm control methods....as long as you only use one of them at the appropriate time and place.
I have it marked as an Australian Snelgrove variation :)
 
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