Small queen problem

[TonyPayne]

Last year my bees swarmed, so I collected them and increased the number of hives I have. One of them got brood in the super which I thought was my fault. But after inspecting the hive hardware and moving her back down a number of times I came to the conclusion that she can get through the gap! The excluder was brand new and doesn't look damaged in any way.

Is it possible that she is small enough to crawl through? Should I try another excluder before I take more drastic measures? Assuming I want to replace her, can I simply do so in the next few weeks and let the bees create a new one? I know I can buy a new one but it seems a waste of money if nature can do it for free!

Any advice will be gratefully accepted,
Thanks,
Tony

 

[B+.]

Is it possible that she is small enough to crawl through? Should I try another excluder before I take more drastic measures? Assuming I want to replace her, can I simply do so in the next few weeks and let the bees create a new one? I know I can buy a new one but it seems a waste of money if nature can do it for free!

Yes.
No.
No. You need a lot of mature drones to ensure that a virgin queen is mated.
With nature, you get what she throws at you. It won't necessarily be the best queen
My advice is ...wait until it warms up a bit. You are taking a risk with the outcome of the mating. Think long and hard about if you're happy with that. You don't want an overly aggressive colony on your hands.

 

[Beefriendly]

No. You need a lot of mature drones to ensure that a virgin queen is mated.

I think this queen is already mated.

One of them got brood in the super which I thought was my fault. But after inspecting the hive hardware and moving her back down a number of times I came to the conclusion that she can get through the gap!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

why do you want to replace her? just because she can get through a queen excluder doesn't mean she's no good.
I have a queen that's forever getting through the QX, one of my most vigorous colonies and a good honey producer

 

[Angry_Mob]

I think this queen is already mated.

I think B+ meant drones for the potential new queen.

 

[Brian Bush]

I think this queen is already mated.

No Beefriendly you misunderstand. B+ is saying wait until there are drones available before removing her and letting the bees rear a replacement.

I agree with JBM. I have had a queen who passed backwards and forwards through a QE at will. She was excellent, prolific and gentle. I was told by an old beekeeper that before QEs became popular a sheet of thin cloth, (handkerchief), placed over the centre of the brood box frames could be used as a QE. The bees went up and down around the margins and the queen would stay below if the cloth was over the brood nest.

 

[B+.]

I think this queen is already mated.

Yes. The queen he has currently is.

 

[Beefriendly]

No Beefriendly you misunderstand. B+ is saying wait until there are drones available before removing her and letting the bees rear a replacement.

My mistake, thanks for explaining.

 

[TonyPayne]

Good answers thanks, I understand what you are saying about the potential problems with a new queen and I'll think about what to do until the time is right. Looking today I can see drone brood in the hive, but none matured yet.

Just to clarify matters I'd rather keep the queen if possible as I don't really want to kill her if I don't need to. So the question remaining is... If I do choose to keep the existing queen, how do I keep the honey and brood separate? I was only able to take off about three frames at the end of last year as the rest had brood in it as well as honey.

Thanks.

 

[Kenson]

I think the "Cloth" (Handkerchief?) solution is the best that has been suggested so far because the poster says that is what they did before we had queen excluders. Obviously it relies on the idea that "The Queen will not go round the edges". I imagine this "cloth" needs to cover "The length of the frames", but not the width (the outside frames being most likely to be honey, where the queen is unlikely to go because there will be no egg laying opportunity. Basically I suppose you would be using the fact that they like to make a "Ball" of brood and won't split it up on their own.

Another thing I have heard of is that a Queen will tend not cross "A box of honey" (i.e. A super with frames of honey). If you don't have a box with frames full of capped honey (I don't), at least one poster on here has some boxes of capped honey, he was asking what he could do with them, I think he was in the west country, he could lend you one

If not, your local association is your ally, someone will have a "Full Honey super" you can borrow.

 

[oliver90owner]

This thread is not quite right, I would say.

This appears (from what is written) that this was a swarm collected and presumably placed in a fresh hive.

The queen would normally have been the old queen. Unless the hive threw casts, of course. The OP has not made this clear in his post.

Unless that old queen was superceded, she would not pass the QX any easier than previously. That means the QX is faulty, so change it. No cost, no hassle and an easy fix.

The poster says the QX was new and we know that at times faulty ones have been sold. Changing it, for a known good excluder, should have been the first thing to do.

Only then would it be appropriate to think about changing the queen, as I see it.

 

[protheroe]

Leave her lay where she wants.more bees made ready for nectar flow.