Single queen cell - supersedure or swarming?

[The Riviera Kid]

I inspected one of my colonies today. I expected to see queen cells, as it's swarm time, but there was just one, in the middle of frame 6, almost the dead centre, hanging down. It was not hanging off the bottom of the frame.

I last inspected them early on Friday and there was no queen cell there. So it is at most five days old.

Last year my colonies produced many queen cells so I was surprised to find just one. I went through the frames twice to make sure that it was the only one.

So here is the problem:

If I artificially swarm them, and it turns out that they are trying to supersede the queen, I could end up with a virgin queen and potentially queenless colony left behind. Or if I leave them, and it turns out to be swarming behaviour, my queen will be off in maybe two days.

The bees appear to be in good health and mood and the queen (born last May) has been laying well and the supers are filling up with honey. Everything appears "textbook" for the time of year. I didn't see the queen herself but the hive was very busy due to the cool cloudy weather and she is unmarked.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

[Silly Bee]

Hanging down, centre of frame. I'd say Supercedure

 

[TOBY-3652]

Ive 3 colonies and i inspected on sunday experienced beek helped me. 2 of mine are in the process of superseding he thinkscolony 1 queen age unknown had 1 cup with grub with royal jelly around/ 3 supers on 2 nearly full he thinks queen running out of eggs.. Colony 2 was a nuc this year super just added 4 cups 3 with eggs 1 grub with royal jelly/// no 3 last yr queen absolutly full of brood 2 supers added that day he cant figure out why no 2 colony had cells.. He said the bees will know best. Im going 2 inspect thurs or fri againe

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Hanging down, centre of frame. I'd say Supercedure

Why just one cell though? Why not create several to spread the risk?

The queen seemed to be doing fine. And at one year of age she can't be running out of eggs yet, can she?

 

[mandabow]

Why just one cell though? Why not create several to spread the risk?

The queen seemed to be doing fine. And at one year of age she can't be running out of eggs yet, can she?

if the one is right for superceedure, why try again.. if one is not quite right then it's worth retrying, but then they often chuck the grub and try again (if they feel they ahve enough time).. superseedure isn't so rushed as swarming. no need to waste resources on multiple queens the colony is not at risk yet. if first sup queen is nt acceptable and/or time is of the essence then they will produce more to spread the risk. if they can get away with doing it leasurly then they will.

also i suspect pheramone from one queen cell as apposed to many growing queens will upset resident queen less so she's less likely to want to stop her daughter surviving. ther being only one maybe puts her at ease? i dunno (purely guessing)..

queens can fail for loads of reasons, health, damage to abdomen, not having enough eggs to start with + other problems associated with being too old a grub that was turned into said queen.. her mating flight may ahve been a bit rubbish only gettgin layed once or maybe twice (wrong tim of yr, more "attractive" females about getitng the good males, lack of drone in area at all due to varroa culling) queen may have poor genetics, she may be laying thousands of eggs a day, but the bees may not be surviving as well, a high percentage of the egs may be being rejected by the nurse bees, loads of reasons

anywhoo back to OP

If I artificially swarm them, and it turns out that they are trying to supersede the queen, I could end up with a virgin queen and potentially queenless colony left behind. Or if I leave them, and it turns out to be swarming behaviour, my queen will be off in maybe two days.

The bees appear to be in good health and mood and the queen (born last May) has been laying well and the supers are filling up with honey. Everything appears "textbook" for the time of year. I didn't see the queen herself but the hive was very busy due to the cool cloudy weather and she is unmarked.

if you AS and queen is failing they will try and requeen once split anyway, she may not be as good as they will be a bit more panicked being smaller in number etc. they may not have time and so may need to produce and emergency queen.. however your superseedure queen will still be ace and you could always reunite the colonies (but not the queens.. once split from one anothers scent they don't tend to like the idea of sharing) rumaging through hive, splitting up , disrupting food to new queen killing mum/emergency queen is hardly rewarding them for good superseeding behaviour.

if you leave them you may indeed loose a swarm, maybe put up some traps and see if your hive is sending out scouts to look into them (gives idea they may be prepping to swarm if they check it out), if it swarms you may get it back in one, you're queen may still be failing and they may superseed in a new home if they have time.

your call really + and - points to either operation. i'd be inclined to leave them. one cell pretty much screams superseedure. 3 or 4 and i'd be a lot less confident

 

[Silly Bee]

You inspected today, I assume its not your first inspection this year.

If you damaged the queen so she has difficulty laying, they may supercede, (IMO)

 

[Midland Beek]

Option 1/ Plain as your nose supersedure so leave them to it ... at risk of losing a swarm.

Option 2/ Make up a nuc around the queen for 'safe storage'. Leave your stock with the supersedure queen cell and destroy any subsequent queen cells of the emergency variety.

 

[susbees]

Option 1/ Plain as your nose supersedure so leave them to it ... at risk of losing a swarm.

Option 2/ Make up a nuc around the queen for 'safe storage'. Leave your stock with the supersedure queen cell and destroy any subsequent queen cells of the emergency variety.

Erm, we went for (non?) option 3...made nuc with one text book supercedure cell leaving behind a second (still open) with Q possibly still in residence (2 day eggs) and destroyed three or four half hearted swarm QCs with eggs/young larvae. Odd year this....

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Thanks. Yes, I will go back and check again today and see what I find.

I have done several inspections so far this year, with increased frequency in the last week or so with it being so warm here - I have already had several calls about swarms from members of the public.

It is indeed a strange year so far. The warm weather muddles the bees a bit I think.

 

[rowbow]

Why just one cell though? Why not create several to spread the risk?

The queen seemed to be doing fine. And at one year of age she can't be running out of eggs yet, can she?

She mite not have been fully mated it happens a lot if the weather is bad.
John
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/images/smilies/BEE-SMILLIE.gif

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Well the mystery deepens... I went today and there appeared to be nothing now in the queen cup. there was a small grub in there yesterday. The bees seem totally happy generally. Perhaps they changed their mind. I don't know.

I have no idea what they're about at the moment!!!