Shook swarm and brood DONATION?

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Poly hives seem to let you get away with more than wood; eg, fewer bees can keep more brood warm.

My setup is a strong poly colony stuffed with stores, so I am worried about space, and a poly nuc that will be very strong by the time I can pick it up after Easter. (Roger has a queue...). I plan to pick up a new poly box at the same time.

I am fascinated with shook swarms but I do not have a (bad) mite or disease problem, and all my comb is less than a year old.

What I do have is a very worrying shortage of drawn comb.*

So, come late April, is there any reason NOT to shook swarm the colony and give the frames that are mainly capped brood to build up the nuc to full size? The uncapped brood I accept would overtax them, but one frame stays temporarily under some shook swarm methods, as a mite trap. But again MITE CONTROL IS NOT THE AIM; swarm prevention and colony strength maximization is.


*Books etc are really irritating on this point. "Give a box of drawn comb" etc. And I am told on here I will be drowning in it in a year or so. But for newbies. it's gold dust.

 

[Finman]

What I do have is a very worrying shortage of drawn comb.*

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Only way is to get new boxes and make frames with foundations. Then put the box under the brood and bees occupy the frames when more bees emerge. It is natural course in every beginner's hive...And too in natural nest cavities. Bees know how to do it without any "encouraging".
Add second box when bees are in every seam of combs.

Why more space under the brood box? - Because you need not worry much about right time, when to give more boxes to the hive.

And this will often prevent quite well swarming. The colony must draw several boxes during this summer.

Even if I have old hives, I give every summer to each hive 2 boxes of foundations, that I can replace old combs, ruined and molded combs. I use brood frames as super frames that bees drawn them during main flow. Then I have new combs for next spring.

To be worried about expansion of colony in spring? . No, I am worried if it does not expand.

Biggest joy in beekeeping is to give more space every spring to the growing colony. That is called succes.

If you have too much food frames now in the hive, put them into the centre foundation box and foundations into the upper box.
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To take care of expanding colony in spring is one of basic skills of beginners and it is not easy job. Too many swarms escape in these cases. And rape yield does not make it easier.
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[Tom Bick]

Come late April your bees will be very happy working on foundation or building comb so the lack of drawn comb will not be an issue. You can give your nuc a frame or two (depending on the size of the nuc) of emerging bees every week or two if you want to build them up faster than what they will be capable given their size. You will of course impact on your other hive by removing brood.

I dont know where you are in relation to London, but every indication I am seeing from my hives and others close to me is hives are extremely strong for the time of year and your problem may be keeping your bees in the one hive you have at the moment and I would be thinking about creating space for them now.

Obviously space required is dependant on bees, brood and available comb for the bees to work, only you know what you have in your hive but in my humble cedar nationals right now all but one hive have has 7 min frames of brood and 11 frames of bees, the last three that are not already double brood will be by next week (placed under original bb) and three have their first supers on. Bees are expanding fast right now and it could get cold that will slow them, but right now in my opinion better to be ahead of the game than trying to catch up later.

A bit off topic I know, but I can see it starting to rain swarms through April.

Good luck with the season.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Thank you both. I am not building up quite that rapidly, Tom, but yes it is all about swarm prevention.

So I'll wait for them to draw the lower box when they're ready and Finman I may try your method of soaking excess store frames that probably contain syrup

Thanks again

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Thinking this through, my current colony was a bit slow to build up in a brood-box (which forced them to build horizontally). I have a spare poly nuc so instead of doing the shook swarm I will extend your advice into the nuc so I think I will saw the base off and double-brood the nuc. Maybe even put some syrup in the side feeder.

 

[Finman]

Thinking this through, my current colony was a bit slow to build up in a brood-box (which forced them to build horizontally).

I have a spare poly nuc so instead of doing the shook swarm I will extend your advice into the nuc so I think I will saw the base off and double-brood the nuc. Maybe even put some syrup in the side feeder.

If you could tell how many frames are covered with bees
- how many frames have brood
- how many frames have food
- how many other frames....

Your description does not tell about these basics. Have you look inside the hive?

- If you have mesh floor, stuck it.

10 cm x 1 cm is enough to ventilate one box hive in spring.

I cannot see any idea in shook swarm.

 

[Finman]

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Slow build up...

If the colony is small, start is slow. It has nothing to do what other guys report about their hives. Colonies are just different size after winter.

Horizontal growth? Brood is in upper parts of frames? It means that lower parts have too much ventilation and too cold.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I've made a partial inspection, going to the edges of the brood nest from outside, to check for space. Not a full inspection; didn't see the need. Also looked underneath top box for QCs.

One frame of drawn comb, added a couple of weeks ago, has pollen and some nectar. One frame of foundation, untouched. Of other 9 frames, 3 are solid stores with few bees. So bees on about 7 frames.

Stores on all other frames and BIAS on approximately 5.

The bottom box now has 3 full frames of stores, including 2 swapped down from above two weeks ago, two frames with nectar and pollen, one frame being drawn slowly and 5 frames of foundation. I just had the stores on there over winter; the lower BB is cedar and was basically a draft excluder over winter but I have added foundation as the colony grows with all those stores about the place. One other thing I am pondering is whether to switch the boxes.

 

[Finman]

- One frame of drawn comb has pollen and some nectar.
- One frame of foundation,
- 3 are solid stores with few bees.
- So bees on about 7 frames.

Total 12 frames, 7+5 frames

lower box extra...........

That tells everything we need to understand the hive.

London has now good weathers this week and the colony can get some honey to be stored. Propably it fills the empty combs with pollen.

The colony has lots of space . Don't worry about what to do.

The Basic:
The colony is still small. Wait in peace that it starts to grow and bees covers first the upper box.

If I were you, I would take now the lower box off. Then close the mesh floor and let the brood box become full of bees. Now bees fill only 30% out of hive space and that is not good for build up. Because out temp is high, the bee number may look much more bigger than it is.

After one week I would look the brood box. Propably the bees cover the free combs and it is time to consider, how much the box need food stores.

Perhaps brood combs has too much stores and it is time to think reducing stores and give a foundation frame into the brood box.

But do not plan too far. Follow the hive every week how it expands and learn.
Difficult to forecast, because brood cycle is slow ( 3weeks) and there is no information, how old are brood and when it emerges.

When one box is full of bees, then it is time to give another box and think over, how many winter food frames hive needs., when you add second box under brood box.


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[TryingToLetThemBee]

Thanks, Finman, I really appreciate it.

OK: I will take off the lower box, swap a frame of stores in the top box for foundation double quick chop chop (only partial opening), clean out the frame of stores (it's syrup and/or ivy), then when the day is right swap it for another full one AND do the first full inspection.

All the best