Serious advice appreciated

[mintmoth]

I was offered a colony of bees. The beek said he'd do a Bailey comb change first so they were on clean comb as they were on very black old comb. He also put an apigu@rd treatment in between the BB's.

He's now on holiday, and the landowner yesterday told me he saw a swarm of bees on 17th, so I looked carefully through the hive. It looked to me that top and bottom BB's were only full of syrup and pollen. No larvae or sealed brood, no eggs as far as my eyesight could tell on the dirty comb, (and the new top combs are pretty dark too),and also no Q cells, just one empty cup. It's a swienty hive, and he's crammed 11 frames in the BB so they were very tight to get out.

Oh, and they were bad tempered, pinging me and I got 3 stings in my wrist protectors and one on the hand. (But I know I rolled bees getting that first frame out.)

All I could think to do was put a frame of eggs from my own hive into the centre of the top BB to give them a chance to make a Q, but if I'm right and they are Q- it's been 6-7 days already, is that too long without?

So right now the hive as it stands has,
floor
old bottom BB with entrance, full of syrup/nectar/pollen
new top BB full of syrup/nectar
feeder - half full
Crown board
2 spare empty supers stored on top of CB
roof

Shall I just leave them be now and hope they sort themselves out with the frame of eggs? I don't want to pay good money for a Q- colony and dirty comb, but that's 4 boxes, a half filled feeder and cross bees to muck about with, and right now I really can't spare the time.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I don't want to pay good money for a Q- colony and dirty comb, but that's 4 boxes, a half filled feeder and cross bees to muck about with, and right now I really can't spare the time.

If the other beekeeper did put Apiguard on with the supers etc, as well as feeding them syrup, then they've spoiled your honey crop.

 

[chrisb]

I think the Op is more interested in not getting ripped of then getting a honey crop

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

sounds like a duff job all round IMHO - just say no thanks and move on

 

[Truble]

Hate to do the "me as well". But have to say I'd wouldn't touch the situation with a bargepole.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

6-7 days is no time to be Q-: don't stress that. Your call how to treat the offer but it does sound like they've swarmed: comb changes can do that. But odd that there are no QCs. If they have been Q- for a long time a test frame might have little impact. And if the "new" comb is manky, that carries its own message. Good luck with your decision

 

[madasafish]

Bad tempered bees from an apparently "don't care" beekeeper with no apparent Queen?


Sounds to me the same as buying a very second hand car which has been neglected.

Walk away time. Especially for a beginner.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I was offered a colony of bees. The beek said he'd do a Bailey comb change first so they were on clean comb as they were on very black old comb. He also put an apigu@rd treatment in between the BB's.

He's now on holiday, and the landowner yesterday told me he saw a swarm of bees on 17th, so I looked carefully through the hive. It looked to me that top and bottom BB's were only full of syrup and pollen. No larvae or sealed brood, no eggs as far as my eyesight could tell on the dirty comb, (and the new top combs are pretty dark too),and also no Q cells, just one empty cup. It's a swienty hive, and he's crammed 11 frames in the BB so they were very tight to get out.

Oh, and they were bad tempered, pinging me and I got 3 stings in my wrist protectors and one on the hand. (But I know I rolled bees getting that first frame out.)

All I could think to do was put a frame of eggs from my own hive into the centre of the top BB to give them a chance to make a Q, but if I'm right and they are Q- it's been 6-7 days already, is that too long without?

So right now the hive as it stands has,
floor
old bottom BB with entrance, full of syrup/nectar/pollen
new top BB full of syrup/nectar
feeder - half full
Crown board
2 spare empty supers stored on top of CB
roof

Shall I just leave them be now and hope they sort themselves out with the frame of eggs? I don't want to pay good money for a Q- colony and dirty comb, but that's 4 boxes, a half filled feeder and cross bees to muck about with, and right now I really can't spare the time.

Walk away. Don't get suckered into a bad deal

 

[mintmoth]

Bad tempered bees from an apparently "don't care" beekeeper with no apparent Queen?


Sounds to me the same as buying a very second hand car which has been neglected.

Walk away time. Especially for a beginner.

It's not so much he doesn't care, but he lives a long way away, and so the situation is a little delicate as I am taking over this apiary site from him. He's a fairly new beek too, has all the rest of his hives nearer his home, but left this one "to keep the site going" and the farmer happy, 'cos the farmer's a great guy and really wants bees on his land. (In spite of the swarm scaring the living daylights out of the fishermen on his fishing lake).

And the apiary site is glorious, a well cared for mixed farm with lakes, spinneys and plenty of protected headlands around the fields, wild flowers, OSR, beans, and I'm told, HB too.

And I don't want to let this colony die for lack of knowing what to do for the best, I can't just walk away and leave them.

Would getting the local SBI to have a look be a good idea?

 

[mintmoth]

If the other beekeeper did put Apiguard on with the supers etc, as well as feeding them syrup, then they've spoiled your honey crop.

The supers are not an active part of the hive, they're empty and just being stored above the feeder - the bees can't access them right now.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

If you feel that you want to continue with this apiary and the remaining hive, you really ought to take the feeder off. You've got so many stores that, even if you have a queen, she's got nowhere to lay.

Suppose you brought the supers into play without a queen excluder? You could not harvest the contents but it might create some room for a queen to lay and at least you'd find out if there's a queen there.

CVB

 

[Gilberdyke John]

It's not so much he doesn't care, but he lives a long way away, and so the situation is a little delicate as I am taking over this apiary site from him. He's a fairly new beek too, has all the rest of his hives nearer his home, but left this one "to keep the site going" and the farmer happy, 'cos the farmer's a great guy and really wants bees on his land. (In spite of the swarm scaring the living daylights out of the fishermen on his fishing lake).

And the apiary site is glorious, a well cared for mixed farm with lakes, spinneys and plenty of protected headlands around the fields, wild flowers, OSR, beans, and I'm told, HB too.

And I don't want to let this colony die for lack of knowing what to do for the best, I can't just walk away and leave them.

Would getting the local SBI to have a look be a good idea?

Somewhat different circumstances to the information originally given.
Are you competent to handle the bees in the hive "as is"? Also how much is being asked for it? You give the impression you are inclined to take the collection, perhaps solely based on the site qualities. It doesn't sound from your original post if the comb change has gone well and I'm concerned just what has been done to cause dark comb to be in the new section.
I'm wondering if you have mentally switched into bee rescuer mode and cold logic has gone out of the window.
You could ask for a visit from the bee inspector who may or may not be busy and although most are happy to discuss your hive conditions are not there to teach beginners beekeeping. A phone call couldn't do any harm I suppose.
I'd still think walking away is your sensible course of action based on what you've said so far.
Would the site be available to you separately if you introduced new, clean colonies sourced elsewhere?

 

[BeeJayBee]

The supers are not an active part of the hive, they're empty and just being stored above the feeder - the bees can't access them right now.

Fair enough, and it's a good way to store equipment. Saves carrying it in the car!

If you do decide to go ahead it might be a good idea to let the bees have access to the supers. There's nectar coming in and they've nowhere to store it so they could end up absconding due to lack of space.

 

[Motobiman]

Also to keep the peace with the farmer and to retain the apirary site you could move in a couple of empty hives baited with drawn comb and you might then benefit from any swarming too.

 

[pargyle]

Strikes me that he left behind the hive he didn't want and you are being asked to pay for it and sort it out.

The site sounds good and worth hanging on to - the bees can be sorted but the question is what are they worth ? If it's a lot of money I would tell him to take them away or give them to you for a lot less ... You can replace with one of your own hives or more if you wish.

In the short term - if you haven't paid for them then why are you messing about with them and worrying .... leave them to it, wait till he returns and talk about it. They are not going to be any worse than if you were not there and it sounds to me like the sort of bees that are going to need a bit of work to get them up and running - might even be a bit late this season to bother trying.

Make peace with the farmer if you want the site, explain what's going on and make your commitment to next season clear and positive if you really want the site.

 

[B+.]

Shall I just leave them be now and hope they sort themselves out with the frame of eggs? I don't want to pay good money for a Q- colony and dirty comb, but that's 4 boxes, a half filled feeder and cross bees to muck about with, and right now I really can't spare the time.

Unless / until you can be shown a working colony, I would go with the advice you've been given (abstain). The aggression may be the result of queenlessness and can be corrected in time (and experience)

 

[mintmoth]

Managed to get to the apiary today to have a look-see (family illness has prevented me until now).

The bees seemed much less aggressive today. The frame of eggs I put in the top BB is now full of syrup or nectar, and in the bottom BB there were 9 queen cups with larvae in them (my eyesight is not too brilliant on dark comb so I poked 2 open to be totally sure that what I could see was larvae).

BTW at what stage do cups stop being cups and start being called cells? These were still cup shaped and not drawn into the long peanut shaped cell, and yet I put the frame of eggs in 7 days ago.

So two questions - will the bees have moved the eggs out of my frame down into the bottom brood box? And do the bees extend Q cells gradually as the larva grows?

And another - how many of the Q cups should I leave? there are 3 adjoining each other, then 4 separate ones, but on the same area of comb.

 

[mintmoth]

And thanks, everyone for all your replies. I appreciate the help and advice as this is a totally new situation for me as a newbie.

My own colony which chose to move into my hive as a swarm is behaving right out of the text book for me, and is so easy to care for.

 

[mintmoth]

Strikes me that he left behind the hive he didn't want....

There were 2 hives, made from one that he split, and he let me choose - this was the one that had the new queen, and I thought them a better option as the Q would be new and not likely to abscond this year.

But obviously the Bailey change he did messed up that plan and she left. But he removed the other hive at the time he did the Bailey.

 

[Hivemaker.]

But obviously the Bailey change he did messed up that plan and she left.

So what laid the eggs in the queen cups to produce the larvae you have seen... workers?