Sealed queen cells, Help please

[Winker]

Today I had 12 sealed queen cells in the hive. But no queen to be found any where. The hive is way to full of bees to have swarmed. Last time I seen the queen was 11 days ago! I may have lost her or killed her in that inspection im not sure. But today I inspected the hive from front to back and back to front, no queen to be seen! She has a big blue spot on her so she not hard to see.

So I tore down 11 of the queen cells leaving the biggest one.

My question is: Do I perform the AS with 1 frame (with the QC on it) without the queen, letting all the flying bees look after the new queen and seeing if the Q- lot build new QC or do I leave the bees as is and hope they are making a new queen due to me either killing or losing the old one.

 

[AMAE]

Sorry to hear of your troubles...all sounds frighteningly familiar!

Where on the frames are the QC's?...might they be supersceding?

 

[Winker]

Sorry to hear of your troubles...all sounds frighteningly familiar!

Where on the frames are the QC's?...might they be supersceding?

Yeah the QC are placed around the middle of the frames. None were along the bottom. The one i have left is on the side of the frame in the middle.

 

[Midland Beek]

Well, killing your queen is one method of swarm control.

It might be useful to know that emergency queen cells are not built on queen cell cups. But supersedure queen cells and swarm queen cells are. And if you are sure they are emergency queen cells, taking them down to just one or two was probably the best thing to do.

 

[Winker]

Well, killing your queen is one method of swarm control.

It might be useful to know that emergency queen cells are not built on queen cell cups. But supersedure queen cells and swarm queen cells are. And if you are sure they are emergency queen cells, taking them down to just one or two was probably the best thing to do.

The weather is my other problem. Last few days has been high winds and temps of around 15-16. Winds have been so high that the large conifer trees in the back door are getting swayed from side to side.

So had the bees wanted to swarm these high winds may have stopped them and the queen may have been sitting on the floor waiting to taxi on to the runway as such

So im not sure if i should AS without the queen and split the flying bees from the brood or leave the bees alone and hope its supersedure

tomorrow the weather is good enough for them to swarm so i have to make my mind up...now

 

[Poly Hive]

Possibly this needs some thought.

Your queen was last seen 11 days ago. How old is the brood now? If you are correct there is no unsealed brood left.

3 days an egg, five a larvae = 8. Should all have been sealed for three days by now.

What are your bees to raise this new queen from if you AS? You only have one cell as you broke down the others.

Unless you are not mentioning something?

PH

 

[Winker]

Possibly this needs some thought.

Your queen was last seen 11 days ago. How old is the brood now? If you are correct there is no unsealed brood left.

3 days an egg, five a larvae = 8. Should all have been sealed for three days by now.

What are your bees to raise this new queen from if you AS? You only have one cell as you broke down the others.

Unless you are not mentioning something?

PH

I am unsure what's going on, when i noticed the QC being build 3 days ago i did see uncapped brood. But 3 days ago i though i still had a good 5 days until they had capped the QC.

Being new to this i thought to myself right sit down and think about you next move and do it tomorrow! Well when tomorrow came, which was yesterday the weather was so bad none of my bees were out flying, the wind was blowing at around 30 miles an hour and blowing through rain. So i had to put the AS off until today.

When i opened up today i was total taken back by the fact the QC were sealed. I thought i had a few more days. So i didn't look for uncapped brood, i was panic struck! My time was spent looking for the Q

Tomorrow i will look for uncapped brood. That's a good idea thanks

 

[Poly Hive]

I appreciate this has been a shock but you have to learn to look and assess in these situations.

The critical question here is have the bees material from which you want them to make a queen cell? Namely larvae under three days old. If the larvae are fat and filling the cell they are too old, they preferably will be tiny but I doubt if in this instance.

If not what are you going to do? Supply a frame with young enough brood or buy a queen?

PH

 

[Midland Beek]

Well, you either killed the queen and those are emergency queen cells.

Or, if they are swarm cells the queen is probably hiding in your hive somewhere ... as you say, I think you would have noticed if a swarm had left.

 

[Winker]

I appreciate this has been a shock but you have to learn to look and assess in these situations.

The critical question here is have the bees material from which you want them to make a queen cell? Namely larvae under three days old. If the larvae are fat and filling the cell they are too old, they preferably will be tiny but I doubt if in this instance.

If not what are you going to do? Supply a frame with young enough brood or buy a queen?

PH

I have a second Nuc of bees on order, from one of the lads here on the forum. Should be ready to collect this week. So my options are open to a new frame from my new Nuc or maybe it would be better to combine the new nuc with the old brood box.

Or i could leave the bees alone and hope the dont swarm and they are superseding.

Thats my problem i dont know if they want to swarm or not. With the QC being sealed they should have swarmed by now, but the weather may be against them for that.

Oh the joys of it

 

[Skyhook]

It sounds to me as if they have swarmed. With a big colony, the hive can still look full. One of the instructors at my local apiary was very engrossed loking for the queen in a hive last year- until a MASSIVE swarm was spotted in a nearby tree. If an experienced beek can be taken in, what hope for us newbies?

If they have swarmed, DO NOT AS. If you had more queen cells left, there may have been an option of splitting the hive- but the time for AS has gone. I would suggest leaving them alone and letting them raise the new queen. Unless PH says different

 

[Winker]

One other thing was temperment. Today the bees were angels. I smoked them once at teh front door and that was all they needed. They are normaly a little more stand offish, not agresive but not normaly this layed back..and the weather today was poor by bee standards. Windy overcast and only a temp of 15.

The hive was full to the brim of bees too, as the weather was keeping them home.

 

[Rock_Chick]

First thing you should always look for before breaking down any QC.s are eggs.
The first rule I was taught was LOOK FOR EGGS,and this was shouted at me every week.
Then you can decide a plan of action.

 

[VEG]

Dont forget if the weather is bad there will be more bees in the hive than if the weather was good. So it can look like the hive is very full if the weather is bad.

 

[bushman1872]

i'd double check and look for eggs if you have eggs then 3 days ago you had a queen laying it, if the weather has been that blowy and bad for the last three days then I would bet that your queen is still there. So eggs seen equals bl**dy good look for queen, no eggs equals leave the hive and let the new queens hatch.

 

[Winker]

i'd double check and look for eggs if you have eggs then 3 days ago you had a queen laying it, if the weather has been that blowy and bad for the last three days then I would bet that your queen is still there. So eggs seen equals bl**dy good look for queen, no eggs equals leave the hive and let the new queens hatch.

Aye i am leaning towards the thought of her still being there, the weather has kept her grounded. The bees were all chilled out today as if they were full of honey and just waiting for the order to go. So first thing tomorrow, I will do a good search for her, by mid day tomorrow the weather will be good enough for her to leave if she is there.

So if I don't find her tomorrow, im going to take the chance that I lost her and leave the hive to get on rearing the new queen.

If they swarm, I will have my kit ready to chase them and try and get them back, if I don't get them back, well they are a healthy bunch of girls, they have dropped 0 vorroa mites in the last 6 weeks of having them and they have a good nature. Good luck to anyone who finds them. Or if they go feral im sure they will be successful.

 

[nonstandard]

I agree with the consensus, look for eggs! the only time you really need to find the queen is to do an A/S any other time all you need to find are eggs; If there are eggs she has been there in the last three days.

However, I will add a rider: if there are multiple eggs laid on the side-walls of the cells then you have a laying worker. And I'm sure someone can describe a method for A/S'ing without finding the queen.

 

[Busybee123]

Well Winker - your experience sounds a bit similar to what happened to me.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10735

At first I did not want to think that I had lost/killed the queen, but I must have. I guess she just has to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and can get squashed just like any other bee.

I have left 2 sealed queen cells in my colony and will let them get on with it and rear a new queen. Since queenless my bees have become increasingly bad tempered.

 

[Winker]

Well Winker - your experience sounds a bit similar to what happened to me.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10735

At first I did not want to think that I had lost/killed the queen, but I must have. I guess she just has to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and can get squashed just like any other bee.

I have left 2 sealed queen cells in my colony and will let them get on with it and rear a new queen. Since queenless my bees have become increasingly bad tempered.

I did an AS this morning on them, i had 2 frames with QC on them, so to be on the safe side i popped one into a new box on the old site, moved the old box 3 feet away, leaving a QC in there too.

The flying bees should go back to the old site and look after the new QC in it.

The old queen may still be in the first brood box, but i left a QC in there too. The book i have says, the queen wont swarm without any flying bees, and if she is there the house bees should pull the QC down and let the old Queen get back on with the job of laying eggs.

If she is not there, the QC will hatch and the old brood box will have a new Queen too.

I will wait it out now see what goes on. Worst case i can try unite them latter, and i have a second Nuc of bees coming this week. So im sure it will all work out in the end...somehow

 

[RoseCottage]

Good choice...may just have suggested the same before I edited the post

Sam