Same size boxes

[Bosleeu]

I had my first go this season with a polyhive from Finland made up of four medium Langstroth boxes with plastic frames.

Did a shook swarm to transfer the colony from a Commercial and they quickly built up to four boxes. I have no queen excluder in the hive.

Reading up about the Rose method I added boxes in the middle of the brood area. Although that seemed to work well the queen still gradually moved upwards through the boxes, until the bottom box had mostly empty comb and some pollen. I moved that to the top and finally it appears to be filled with honey.

Anybody with some experience of using hives like this (same size boxes, whatever sort of hive) with or without excluder I would be keen to hear if that happens to you as well and how you manage the system. Things like where you add your boxes, do you find the bottom box gets empty and if and how you keep the queen from going higher and higher are appreciated. The honey arc seemed to be no obstacle for her. Maybe she just didn't read the book and others will be different.

I really like the hive and this colony appears to be doing well. I have already bought another one for next season. They didn't have four medium boxes so now I have two deep and two medium, which I am keen to try as well.

Many thanks

 

[tudorcd]

I run most of my 40 hives with 3/4 boxes and the rose advised method of inserting brood boxes which works very well when timed to occur when bees numbers are rising rapidly.
With no excluder the queen goes up high and lays anywhere, and as flow advances and brood hatches out the workers convert the brood cells to honey storage, and the queen's laying descends. Many hives were 6 high and the top 2 or 3 boxes full of honey of which 2 were taken off (some were rapidly refilled) , the next being filled, brood in the next 2 and bottom box often empty. We usually have an autumn flow.
Setting up for winter usually 2 or 3 boxes, the top being honey, the next 2 being brood reducing and being set up by the bees for winter with honey in the brood area. The bottom empty box would be removed.
We have a relatively mild climate with Italian queens and can be brood free, but aim for good stores to over winter.
The main thing I have learned is to wait for the supers to be converted and capped at the bees pace. And was careful to check for brood before extracting, as usual.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Mine (national brood boxes, no QE) goes from the top

Brood, bit of mostly capped honey
Partly capped, bit of drone brood in the founationless frame
New box last week so don't know; probably not much as flow has eased a lot
Mostly capped
Nectar and lots of pollen (I don't spend a lot of time in this box now as all the grumpy old fliers are a long way from the Q and are nasty.

With flow less, I am going to start tidying up. I don't think I'll do this yet but I am considering lowering brood nest through the stack by moving boxes and maybe adding a QE. Maybe in a week or so.

 

[Bosleeu]

Many thanks to both of you, this is very helpful, and interesting One question - do you find the bees are less inclined to swarm keeping them like this?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I don't know but it would seem logical and mine have not (touch wood; may go home to a huge one :- ) I cerainly wouldn't rely on it a a swarm protection method. I Demareed for a while so had a QE on there for a couple of weeks.

 

[Jimy Dee]

Very interesting discussion. I used 2 commercial brood boxes as one brood area and I think it has been a mistake - a wast as the queen seems to be going up rather than out. Next year I will give a max of a brood and a half and put my queen excluded on top of this, and see how this goes. Very interested to see other replies to this thread.

 

[Bosleeu]

I don't know but it would seem logical and mine have not (touch wood; may go home to a huge one :- ) I cerainly wouldn't rely on it a a swarm protection method. I Demareed for a while so had a QE on there for a couple of weeks.

Fingers crossed they never think of it! It does make sense though that they will be less inclined. I have found this system quite good and will definitely do it on another hive next year.

I tried a modification of it on a national hive - I put a super under the q/e, once she's layed it full I move it up above the q/e and put another empty super in its place. Provides the queen with laying space and also seemed to solve the problem of persuading the bees to cross the q/e, supers also appear to get drawn very quickly. Only possible problem is to make sure the queen does not end up above the excluder when you move the super up. I had to provide a small exit at the top of the hive as there seemed to be drone brood along the bottom of some super frames, so had to let the boys out somehow.

As you say the cells get filled in with nectar as the brood hatches. No sign of swarming so far this season and they are on their 4th super. Started of as a 6 frame overwintered Nuc, so they built up pretty well. Might be the management, might all be down to the queen and a bit of luck.

 

[Bosleeu]

Very interesting discussion. I used 2 commercial brood boxes as one brood area and I think it has been a mistake - a wast as the queen seems to be going up rather than out. Next year I will give a max of a brood and a half and put my queen excluded on top of this, and see how this goes. Very interested to see other replies to this thread.

Maybe try what I mentioned, once the super is layed up move it above the excluder, and give her a new one, and so on. More bees for you, more space for her, so hopefully more honey

 

[Walrus]

Finman has written about this style of beekeeping lots - no queen excluder & let queen do what she wants. I let the queen lay where she wants and agree that they leave the bottom box mostly empty but with some pollen. I think it is where foragers dump incoming nectar then the house bees move it up.

Of 3 hives where I did this (current season) one swarmed whilst I was away on holiday and the other two did not, and are very big. I tend to check the frame bottoms for QCs rather than pull out all the frames so there is always a risk of missing a QC.

I try to add drawn comb as they expand in spring then foundation when there is a good flow on, and often alternate foundation frames with drawn ones. I have added boxes on the top or in the middle and can't detect any difference. The bees use the space wherever it is.

I've had 100 lbs of honey so far from the big two hives. The only difference I can tell vs using a QX is occasional pollen cells in with the honey, but I don't mind that. I pull honey frames out when capped and replace with drawn comb so that I don't have loads of boxes of capped honey sat in the hive. It means extracting little & often but that way I can recycle honey frames. I also rearrange/remove any frames in the brood area that get filled with nectar so there is space to lay.

Quite soon I will put a QX on so that the upper boxes get cleared of brood and filled with honey. This will still leave x2 BBs (14x12) of space for queen/brood.

 

[Bosleeu]

Very interesting - seems it is quite common to have the bottom box quite empty.