Roof Insulation.

[oliver90owner]

Yes, perhaps he was a silly old fool. Persistent, though, wasn't he? My first question is: were these colonies in straw skeps (don't think so, but can't be sure)? But an interesting read all the same.

I also note the wording 'his beekeeping' when referring to losses - so not sure whether that was a slip or a bit of a misleading comment. And it was only 'one of'. Some study of the actual facts might be in order there! One often needs to read it carefully, to make sure it was 'what you thought' you read, first time around!

I don't think 'warmth' to about -5 Celsius would be a bad thing - ask Finman (I don't remember what his warm hives are kept at) because the bees will look after themselves and still be clustered at that temperature. Let's be clear, providing heat is not the same as insulation.

It might be interesting to make a 500mm thick polystyrene hive and see what happens. I would be confident that nothing would be amiss with an OMF.

My hives are very positively connected to the outside ambient - through the OMF. Even solid floors will have outside ambient temperatures at entrance level. That does not mean that insulation is a bad thing. The bees will simply eat less stores to maintain their 20 or 30 degree core cluster/nest temperature, and OMFs are generally regarded as cooler than solid floors (bees use more stores through the winter).

Sooo, my view is dry definitely, smaller colonies, at least to have some insulation (we know a full colony can over-winter outside, given a little shelter, with no hive). Further, my experience (and a lot of poly users) is that insulation is OK for outside hives.

Yep, silly old fool, trying it on 50 colonies at a time!

Regards, RAB

 

[Gardenbees]

A fool, perhaps, to try and raise the hive temperature artificially. But I think it's useful to add the kind of insulation which has a stabilising effect on temperature. In other words, in may not end up that much warmer in the hive, but big fluctuations in temperature don't affect the bees' efforts quite so much. And at the moment, we seem to be getting more and more big swings in temperature - ten degrees difference from one day to the next is not that unusual. This, for bees, is manageable but demanding - in and out of clustering, waking up, warming up, eating more, then requiring elimination flights when it's freezing etc etc. Whereas the oft-cited hollow tree habitat preferred by (at least some) feral bees would have a relatively stable winter temperature due to the bulk of surrounding material.

I saved the big, chunky sheets of expanded polystyrene from the packaging around a new fridge I bought a couple of years ago, thinking it might make handy insulation. It does! I fitted a snug square of it into the hive roof of the National, and a rectangle into the long hive roof. I like to think that it will not only stop heat escape and chilly condensation in cold weather, but also reduce sharp swings in temperature when there's a very warm sunny spell. I'll remove it fairly promptly in spring, though, for the same reason.

In the interests of economy and reducing waste, it might be an idea for beeks to ask at electrical good retailers whether they have any clean EP packaging that would otherwise be wasted: it comes in very useful sizes that would otherwise have to be purchased specially.

 

[Skyhook]

I'm wondering if I've overdone the insulation. My standard national BB has 4" of celcon on the crownboard (well, it was sitting in the shed) and such a deep roof it is basically a twin walled hive. Although they are on OMF I've seen no signs of clustering yet- whenever I look through the OMF they are walking all over it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

In the interests of economy and reducing waste, it might be an idea for beeks to ask at electrical good retailers whether they have any clean EP packaging that would otherwise be wasted: it comes in very useful sizes that would otherwise have to be purchased specially.

Our Homebase leaves poly packaging out with their "help yourself" plant paraphernalia. I have helped myself to some useful bits including a half sheet of 50mm Kingspan-type material which suitably trimmed now resides in the hive roofs.

 

[Poly Hive]

Don't worry Skyhook, you have insulated them and so they are exhibiting typical behaviour of not clustering. However they will cluster for sure at lower temperatures which is good as it reduces food consumption but as you are seeing at moderate cold levels they are still quite mobile and so less at risk of isolation starvation.

PH

 

[steve_e]

Last year I attached bubblewrap around three sides, leaving the front free. We always have plenty of it around in big strips so it wasn't an expense.

Don't know if it did any good, but it didn't seem to do any harm. I put it on during the long cold bit when there was lots of snow.

Anyone think of a reason why this might not be such a good idea?

 

[RoofTops]

Steve, My only worry is wood is intrinsically damp - not hugely so - the moisture content of wood left outside is usually about 20% or a less, depending on location and weather, but if you wrap the hive in an impermeable membrane, e.g. bubble wrap, you risk trapping in moisture which in the long term is likely to be bad for the hive and in the short term is likely to be bad for the bees. A wooden hive needs to breath so I think insulation for this sort of hive needs to be placed internally which is why most efforts are aimed at the roof, leaving the sides of the hive exposed to the air.

 

[steve_e]

Thanks Rooftops. I did wonder about holding in the damp, but rationalised that it was fairly loose fitting (tacked on with drawing pins) but I guess it's quite likely to be holding in a fair amount of moisture so perhaps I'll leave it this year.

As finman has often suggested, if they survive Scandinavian winters then they ought to be ok in ours!

 

[richardbees]

Finman

As you say, the heat rises up - so why isn't it a good idea to insulate the roof?>

....I use a sheet of 1 inch thick horsehair felt on top of my cover board

Richard

 

[Kev]

Hi,
I am just about to start making roofs for next year. Is it worth me building in 50mm of the B&Q insulation into them perminantly, or will the bees overheat in the summer?


Kev

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi,
I am just about to start making roofs for next year. Is it worth me building in 50mm of the B&Q insulation into them perminantly, or will the bees overheat in the summer?


Kev

i have but screwed the bearing battons in so i can take the out to remove the poly in order to blow torch wax moth etc

should help stop them overheating in full midday sun, you can almost fry an egg on a galvy roof some times

 

[Kev]

Thanks Muswell,
Off to B&Q at the weekend.


Kev.