Re Queening gone wrong ??

[ashley hunter]

I had a queen that had started to lay drone brood. Removed her and replaced with new purchased queen about 48 hours later. Inserted cage on Tuesday of last week ( 10 July 18 ) went in today ( 15 July 18 ) expecting healthy scattering of eggs and nothing !!! and to make things worse no queen. Queen cage is empty so she out but nothing else happening. am i expecting action too soon ?? Is it more than likely shes been killed for some reason ??? Is it worth trying another queen ..... or should i just give up - I would rather not as this is my first colony and do not want to admit to being a failure but i get a horrible feeling that this is the end of the line. Strangely the hive seems OK - no angsty bees. I have a honey super on and this is now almost full. Checked super and no sign of eggs brood or the queen so doesn't look like that's were she has disappeared to ..... this bee keeping malarkey is way too stressful

 

[Eyeman]

I had a queen that had started to lay drone brood. Removed her and replaced with new purchased queen about 48 hours later. Inserted cage on Tuesday of last week ( 10 July 18 ) went in today ( 15 July 18 ) expecting healthy scattering of eggs and nothing !!! and to make things worse no queen. Queen cage is empty so she out but nothing else happening. am i expecting action too soon ?? Is it more than likely shes been killed for some reason ??? Is it worth trying another queen ..... or should i just give up - I would rather not as this is my first colony and do not want to admit to being a failure but i get a horrible feeling that this is the end of the line. Strangely the hive seems OK - no angsty bees. I have a honey super on and this is now almost full. Checked super and no sign of eggs brood or the queen so doesn't look like that's were she has disappeared to ..... this bee keeping malarkey is way too stressful

With just the one hive all you can do at the moment is give them more time. Go back and look in a weeks time- there are a number of hopeful possibilities ie, your queen may take a while to start laying and there may have already been a queen in that hive and yours has been bumped off but the resident queen may well get mated soon. In the mean time ask around to see if anyone would be willing to give you a frame from their hive with eggs/young larvae (test frame). If still no signs of the colony being queen right in a weeks time then put that test frame in.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You don’t even need a whole test frame. A piece cut out with a biscuit cutter will do

 

[ashley hunter]

Thank you for your advice ... I shall be patient and give them another week ... my worry is the longer I leave it the more likely I am to have a hive that I can’t get through the winter ... and that would be sad ... and though not my fault I would feel like I have failed at my first year. I shall keep fingers crossed .. Thank you again

 

[Amari]

I had a queen that had started to lay drone brood. Removed her and replaced with new purchased queen about 48 hours later. Inserted cage on Tuesday of last week 10 July( 18 ) went in today ( 15 July 18 ) expecting healthy scattering of eggs and nothing !!! and to make things worse no queen. Queen cage is empty so she out but nothing else happening. am i expecting action too soon ?? Is it more than likely shes been killed for some reason ??? Is it worth trying another queen ..... or should i just give up - I would rather not as this is my first colony and do not want to admit to being a failure but i get a horrible feeling that this is the end of the line. Strangely the hive seems OK - no angsty bees. I have a honey super on and this is now almost full. Checked super and no sign of eggs brood or the queen so doesn't look like that's were she has disappeared to ..... this bee keeping malarkey is way too stressful

Five days is too short a time to panic. Standard advice is to go in on day 2-3 to check Q has been released then leave well alone for 7-10 days before checking for eggs/larvae.
The only worry is you didn't see her - I assume she's marked - but then we've all missed marked Qs.
Now for some unsolicited advice: as soon as practicable get a second/third colony - adds interest to compare progress and adds possibility of supporting one hive by the other e.g donating a test frame.

 

[ashley hunter]

Thank you again for the advice .... especially The unsolicited variety .... now beginning to understand why one colony is very restrictive - the problem is a s anew beekeeper the whole silence is very overwhelming and you think one colony at least for your first year will be more than enough, what you don’t appreciate is that a lot of things that can go wrong can be sorted if a second colony is on hand .... priority for 2019 !!!

 

[Beefriendly]

The method used for many is not to.open the tab on the cage. Leave for AT LEAST 48 hrs and the remove tab. Bees can breakthrough fondant in hours.....not enough time for acceptance.
You do need to be sure she isn't there before trying again.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

For future reference, 48 hours is way to long to leave them Q- before putting the new queen in - 48 seconds would have been better - and then with the candy protected for a few days for them to get used to her before breaking the tab.

 

[Roola]

For future reference, 48 hours is way to long to leave them Q- before putting the new queen in - 48 seconds would have been better - and then with the candy protected for a few days for them to get used to her before breaking the tab.

agreed, i've left them 5 or 6 days before for particularly mardy colonies. The best thing to do is leave protective strip on and pop back every few days and observe the behaviour of the bees around the cage. If they are balling it or biting/stinging, leave it longer. Once they are used to her there shouldnt be many around cage and colony will seem like it is business as usual. Don't disturb them for a week or so after you remove tab.

 

[enrico]

Heed the warnings above. Bought three queens and lost two because I was too hasty. I have learnt a lot this year about introducing foreign queens which I have never had to do in the past.
Slowly slowly is my advice. You would think they would be grateful for a new queen when they are totally queenless but it seems this is not always the case.
When they have been accepted it can then take a couple of weeks at least for the queen to start laying properly.
E

 

[Amari]

For future reference, 48 hours is way to long to leave them Q- before putting the new queen in - 48 seconds would have been better - and then with the candy protected for a few days for them to get used to her before breaking the tab.

I seem to remember reading on the forum that your method runs the risk of there being an unrecognised second queen in the hive which will then kill the newcomer. I think this may explain why one of my introductions disappeared in the past. By leaving the colony queenless 48 hours it is reassuring to see Qcells appear which can then be culled.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I seem to remember reading on the forum that your method runs the risk of there being an unrecognised second queen in the hive which will then kill the newcomer.

Why would there be a second queen if you have been keeping your inspections up to scratch?
Find unwanted queen, kill, put new queen in, hasn't failed me thus far.

 

[birdsandbees]

I like living dangerously, on several occasions introducing queens within minutes of the old one being removed, listening for the Q- roar then putting the new on on top of the frames to observe the reaction, I'd agree with JBM that sooner is often better than later as it avoids emergency Q triggers.

however, don't do what I did at the weekend, I had a brain fart and put the replacement queen on top in a marking cage.. duh! they can still get to her!

she wasn't accepted and they were trying to ball her in the cage!

 

[Eyeman]

agreed, i've left them 5 or 6 days before for particularly mardy colonies. The best thing to do is leave protective strip on and pop back every few days and observe the behaviour of the bees around the cage. If they are balling it or biting/stinging, leave it longer. Once they are used to her there shouldnt be many around cage and colony will seem like it is business as usual. Don't disturb them for a week or so after you remove tab.

I've been down the route of Butler queen cage left in for 4-7 days & check no queen cells have been build- bees look calm and relaxed and on release see her walk calmly between frames only to find 3 days later she has been killed. Even happens with hopelessly queenless colonies.
I'm moving over lock & stock to push in cages for all my introductions as I must do 40+ each year. I think the big difference is a laying queen surrounded by nurse bees in a push in cage must release a significantly greater amount of queen substance which the nurse bess can distribute around. I leave them in usually till my next inspection 1 week later.

 

[Amari]

Why would there be a second queen if you have been keeping your inspections up to scratch?
Find unwanted queen, kill, put new queen in, hasn't failed me thus far.

I work mainly on double brood box. At my weekly inspections I usually only check the top box for Qcells - lazy I know but I haven't lost a swarm in recent years.
Remembering that supercedure cells are few in number I would miss them if laid in the lower box i.e there might be the marked Q and her daughter coexisting for a short time. Just theorising...........

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

by the same measure, you could easily miss an emergency QC after leaving them Q- for 48 hours. A more likely outcome and what probably usually happens, same result - dead introduced queen

 

[ashley hunter]

Thank you everyone for the advice ... I have a feeling this new queen may be lost ... hopefully not - we will see. If not I will be much better prepared for the next introduction