Re-housing wild colony now

[WingCommander]

I got a call from a lady in the village yesterday who had found a colony in a compost bin in her garden. It looks like a swarm from this year that has settled in. Most of the frame had been built hanging from the roof and has collapsed when she opened it. There are lots of bees in there but I am not sure, given the time of year, damage to the colony etc. how well they would survive.

My (newbee) thoughts were:

Nuc with drawn out frames of brood (although not sure where i would get these from as i only have 2 hives and they are both in winter close down mode)
Food.
On a warmer day this week (Wednesday?) attempt to get as many bees and out of the bin into a box/sheet and attempt a rehive...

I have a friend who may be able to help but he has a very sick kid at the moment so is in hospital a lot so I may be flying solo. My gut feel is that they will not survive the move as that too much damage has been done to their home, that I may miss the queen, they won't have time to rebuild etc.

Is this even worth attempting or should I try and persuade the lady to keep them in the bin until spring and see if they make it through the winter - I can't imagine they will be much bother...

Any thoughts welcome.

 

[user 6228]

Their best chance is in a highly insulated hive. Put them in what ever hive you have using the rubber band technique then add as some one put it a "derekm cosy" on it. Failing that put a "derekm cosy" on the compost bin. and of course fondant.

Bees +insulation +sugar+pollen can do anything they want: like making honey at 9pm in november at 1C outside

 

[ichbinpaul]

Absolutely keep them in situ if poss as the combs would need a lot of rework to hang from frames etc, unless you have access to some drawn frames with food stores and if poss spare brood, I dont have any spare as I too am about to use what I have for a feral colony, that must be removed quickly, if the people will go along with it just insulate for a few months much easier than settling them in in shutdown mode!.

 

[pargyle]

Persuade the owner they won't do any harm and moving them will kill them - you can arrange to move them in spring as soon as she sees any sign of them flying.

Wrap the bin in whatever insulation material you can lay your hands on, as much as possible on top of the lid - seal round the lid with weatherproof tape (aluminium tape is best) .... make sure they have a small entrance hole but there's virtually nothing you can do to feed them as the comb will be hung from the underside of the lid.

Best left to their own devices now.

 

[enrico]

I am of the other ilk! If the comb collapsed then they will not be able to use most of it. Get a box of fully drawn comb, lift as many bees as possible out of the bin and into the box. Put the box on top of the open bin and hope that they will try and get in there. Then feed with slabs of fondant! I don't see any other option. If you can find useful comb to tape to the inside of frames even better.
E

 

[Pete D]

Hi Wing Commander, where abouts in Cambridgeshire are you, I work in Wisbech. Could possibly help if not too far, PM if you like.

 

[beekeeping4you]

Kingspan

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/kingspan-revenues-gain-on-recovery-in-uk-29743578.html
BUILDING materials group Kingspan has reported 13pc growth in sales to the nine months ended September to €1.32m compared with last year.


The company said the boost came as the firm saw "clear evidence" of recovery in some parts of the UK construction market....

Regards
Reiner

 

[pargyle]

I am of the other ilk! If the comb collapsed then they will not be able to use most of it. Get a box of fully drawn comb, lift as many bees as possible out of the bin and into the box. Put the box on top of the open bin and hope that they will try and get in there. Then feed with slabs of fondant! I don't see any other option. If you can find useful comb to tape to the inside of frames even better.
E

OP did not appear to have any drawn combs/combs of stores available:

"Nuc with drawn out frames of brood (although not sure where i would get these from as i only have 2 hives and they are both in winter close down mode). On a warmer day this week (Wednesday?) attempt to get as many bees and out of the bin into a box/sheet and attempt a rehive..."

Without drawn comb it would be difficult to see them survive in a new box but in the bin, with some comb still attached under the lid, they have the opportunity to make the best of the damage ? Particularly if the OP could insulate and give them the chance to keep the temperature up to a point where they could still operate for a while before they cluster ...

 

[pargyle]

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/kingspan-revenues-gain-on-recovery-in-uk-29743578.html
BUILDING materials group Kingspan has reported 13pc growth in sales to the nine months ended September to €1.32m compared with last year.


The company said the boost came as the firm saw "clear evidence" of recovery in some parts of the UK construction market....

Regards
Reiner

DerekM ought to get a dividend for his market boosting .... but it's a bit off topic ! confused:

 

[itma]

I am of the other ilk! If the comb collapsed then they will not be able to use most of it. Get a box of fully drawn comb, lift as many bees as possible out of the bin and into the box. Put the box on top of the open bin and hope that they will try and get in there. Then feed with slabs of fondant! I don't see any other option. If you can find useful comb to tape to the inside of frames even better.
E

I'm with enrico on this one.
If its all collapsed, they need something better, quickly.

Even super combs would be useful. Granulated stores? Fondant asap.

Looks as though a poly nuc would be appropriate.


Once the majority of the bees have been removed, the wild comb can be cut to fit into frames.

Wire mesh secured to one side of the frame gives a backstop to fit it against, and it can be stopped from falling out with wires, rubber bands (big ones), cable ties or even old-fashioned string.


Don't forget the 3ft/3miles rule ...

 

[Norfolk]

I am of the other ilk! If the comb collapsed then they will not be able to use most of it. Get a box of fully drawn comb, lift as many bees as possible out of the bin and into the box. Put the box on top of the open bin and hope that they will try and get in there. Then feed with slabs of fondant! I don't see any other option. If you can find useful comb to tape to the inside of frames even better.
E

I'm with Enrico on this.
If you offer then a new home above, in the form of a brood box with frames and foundation, even if there is no drawn comb they will take it or they wont.
If you feed them they should have the energy to draw the frames themselves and will rob whatever the want from the bin.
They will know what offers the best option for themselves.

 

[WingCommander]

I spoke to my bee buddy. He believes that they will not survive the winter as they are as the space is too big, too poorly insulated and the frames are damaged. He recommended attempting to rehive as they have little to use.

I have ordered a Poly-Nuc, with integral feeder, from ------ for delivery tomorrow. Here is the plan:

Make up 3 frames of brood foundation
Make up 4/5 empty frames
Salvage what I can from the existing hive and hang, tape, band into the empty frames
Try and salvage as many bees as possible, including queen into NUC.
Place Nuc on top of the existing bin for a day or too to encourage any flying bees back in.
Move somewhere nice.
Keep feeding and hope for the best.

A Poly-NUC should give me the insulation, it's just whether or not I can recover the colony!

Pete D - thanks for the offer but you couldn't be more north in Cambs and I couldn't be more south - I'm near Duxford!

What do you think to the above plan...?

 

[merince]

WingCommander, your plan sounds like the best option with what you have. I hope you find the queen!

 

[Pete D]

You are doing what I was going to offer you some help with including the loan of a poly nuc, a frame of capped brood, stores and empty drawn comb.
I have the ekes too which gives room for a big slab of fondant and some insulation. I have also put a fondant slice into the feeder previously which works.
Good luck, in reality probably not worth bothering with but a nice distraction at this time of the year and some satisfaction if they come through, said through the eyes of a 30 hive operator and not a 2 hive operator of course.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I spoke to my bee buddy. He believes that they will not survive the winter as they are as the space is too big, too poorly insulated and the frames are damaged. He recommended attempting to rehive as they have little to use.

I have ordered a Poly-Nuc, with integral feeder, from ------ for delivery tomorrow. Here is the plan:

Make up 3 frames of brood foundation
Make up 4/5 empty frames
Salvage what I can from the existing hive and hang, tape, band into the empty frames
Try and salvage as many bees as possible, including queen into NUC.
Place Nuc on top of the existing bin for a day or too to encourage any flying bees back in.
Move somewhere nice.
Keep feeding and hope for the best.

A Poly-NUC should give me the insulation, it's just whether or not I can recover the colony!

Pete D - thanks for the offer but you couldn't be more north in Cambs and I couldn't be more south - I'm near Duxford!

What do you think to the above plan...?

Sounds like a good plan to me - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain - at least you are affording them a chance which they wouldn't get otherwise.
Good Luck!

 

[sharonh]

Poly nuc + fondant. Retrieve as much of their comb as you can and use as itma said.
Any drawn comb you have, put in also.
They would have no chance of winter survival in that compost bin.
Comb would eventually drop away anyway with it being plastic.
Poly nuc is best bet at this stage.
Do the best you can for them and see how it goes.
Sharon

 

[pargyle]

Good luck ... sounds like you have a plan now, general concensus appears to be it's the right thing to do ... hope it goes well - let us know how you get on - they could be a bit feisty at this time of the year - stupid bees deciding on a compost bin in the first place to set up home !!

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Good luck ... sounds like you have a plan now, general concensus appears to be it's the right thing to do ... hope it goes well - let us know how you get on - they could be a bit feisty at this time of the year - stupid bees deciding on a compost bin in the first place to set up home !!

I'm brand new, so fascinated by everything but one of the things I find REALLY fascinating is one of the natural crowd's things about the tree-hive floor, where you naturally find predators on varroa etc. Check, in a compost bin.

Steady source of winter warmth and water; maybe not so stupid.

 

[pargyle]

I'm brand new, so fascinated by everything but one of the things I find REALLY fascinating is one of the natural crowd's things about the tree-hive floor, where you naturally find predators on varroa etc. Check, in a compost bin.

Steady source of winter warmth and water; maybe not so stupid.

Well ... I lean towards the dark side of beekeeping and I have the tray under my hive for the day when I finally pluck up courage and drop in some forest floor mulch along with all those little critters that will eat varroa for a Phil Chandler style 'deep litter floor'. The only thing that has stopped me has been how useful I have found having a sticky board in the tray as it tells you so much about what is going on in the hive ....

Your comment about the heat generated in even a decaying, elderly, pile of compost is very interesting though ... perhaps that WAS what made them decide it was a des-res ! I rather assumed from the OP it was a bin that only had a smallish space for the bees above the compost ~ but the later comments would indicate that it's not got a lot apart from the bees in it ?

 

[itma]

... A Poly-NUC should give me the insulation, ...

Poly provides better insulation than wood and nuc has less heat loss than full hive.
BUT the insulation of Payns poly nuc needs a bit of help.
The roof is too thin - thinner than the walls.
Two solutions: the eke (as mentioned by PeteD) or the DerekM 'bonnet'.

It is simpler not to use Payns built-in feeder.
If you ignore that good advice, at least use the small (3cm x 1cm?) QX provided to try and keep Q out of the feeder ...


You can do a better job of quickly 'robbing' stores from the bin than they can - as in you can get more shifted faster. However, the bees will do a better job of clearing the very last out of odd scraps of comb.
Cut out and 'frame' what you can.
Then I'd put the nuc on the original site, and move the compost bin a few feet away.
That way they shouldn't be confused as to where they should be living, and which 'hive' they should be robbing.

With an eke, you can use a round plastic rapid feeder. A second eke of insulation on top wouldn't hurt, but is more than most would do.
You can use the rapid feeder (without the clear plastic cone) as a 'feeder' for odd scraps and offcuts of stores comb.
Using a rapid feeder really requires a coverboard with a hole. I've used old estate-agent-board correx - with permission!