Re-hiving a swarm - queen in hive?

[Caz]

Hi All,

I did an AS on Saturday morning - but unfortunately my existing Queen decided to swarm anyway this morning (Sunday). I turned up just in time to see them leaving - which would have been awe-inspiring if they weren't my bees.

I managed to find the swarm but have made a real mess of trying to get them back into a hive. I tried to re-hive about 6 pm tonight. I know I had the queen - I saw her and put her back in an empty hive (11 frames foundation) along with as many bees as possible.

There are loads of bees on the side of the hive next to the one I'm trying to get them back into - and not much sign of bees going into the hive I put the queen back into.

I don't want to disturb the queen if she is in the hive by looking for her in case she flies off again but am worried that she has potentially already done a bunk.

Is there anyway I can tell? How long would the bees clustering on the side of the other hive remain there if the queen was no longer with them?

Would be grateful for any advice!

Thanks,

C

 

[Swarm]

When you say 'real mess', how so? You hived the queen, what happened with the bees? Did they take to the air or spill on the floor?
Check the entrance of the hive with queen, the bees should be fanning away. With a cluster on the hive next door it sounds like she didn't stay. Either try smoking them up into a skep or brush them into one and tip them into the hive after taking out some frames which you can replace when the bees are in.

 

[enrico]

OK, happens to us all when we are learning!!! Usually the bees will be fanning away at the entrance if you have the queen inside. Most of the others will follow. It sounds to me that you have lost her and i reckon when you open the new hive tomorrow you will find nothing in there. They will have followed the queen or returned to the original hive as they have lost her.
Look at where you got the swarm from as they will often return there too.
Next time you try to hive a swarm, box the original swarm immediately below where you find them and then in the evening go back, after they have stopped flying and move the box to where you want them to be finally and knock them into your new hive. Close the top quickly. If there are any bees left in the box shake them onto a sheet at the front of the hive and they will climb upwards and into the entrance. It works for me.
Let me know how it looks tomorrow!
E

 

[Caz]

Thanks for your replies - there are no bees fanning at the entrance so I think I lost her.

I tried to tip the bees into the hive - but some landed on the ground and some flew off. I found the queen on the ground so put her into the hive - but as there were bees flying around at the time wasn't sure if she flew off before I had chance to close up.

I'll go back and have a look - and if the bees are still on the side of the hive I'll brush them into a box and try again!

It's a steep learning curve - but much more interesting when things don't go according to plan!

I'll let you know how I get on.

C

 

[Swarm]

Like Enrico said, happens to us all. At least you know you had the queen in the caught swarm.
I hope she's in that cluster for you

 

[enrico]

When you tip the bees into the hive try and do a double hit(depending on the box you have them in) The first is to knock them all onto one side or corner of the box they are in at the moment and the second is to knock that cluster into the hive. If they are in one block they tend to go into the hive as one big lump! If they have already started to build comb in your box then you may not be able to do this. Always try and home the hive on the first evening after you have boxed the swarm. If you have frames in the hive then only leave the out side frames. Once the bees are in quickly put the central frames in and the a crown board with no holes. By now they will be starting to fly so be as quick as possible but don't panic!.Shortly afterwards they will start fanning at the entrance. If you miss the hive with the knock as you appear to have done then pick up the main mass in your hands and drop them into the hive, close up and hope you got the queen in. Move the hive so the entrance is by the rest of the 'dropped' bees and they will start to climb up and into the entrance. Encourage them in the right direction with a bit of smoke. Every swarm is different and always a challenge. If you start with a disaster then next time at least you can say 'Well that went better than last time!'
Well done for trying
You will soon be an expert!
E

 

[Flatters]

Hi Caz
I caught a swarm yesterday(http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12780) and had to knock them into a nuc. I took all the frames out apart from the two nearest the walls and then knocked them out of the skep. Some did go on either side of the box and onto the floor but I did get the queen in the box. I could tell because the bees on the started fanning. Once they are in the box I gently put in the rest of the frames. I am not sure if taking the frames out is the best way but it seemed to work well for me and in a full sized brood box I would have thought it would be easier. Mine seem to have settled ok as lots of activity today so all looks well.

Perhaps you need to re-look at the box you use? If it is not too sturdy then getting the bees out may be hard to do precisely. I made the skep I use and have to say that it does make the job so much easier. They are however very costly to buy.

Best of luck and keep you spirits up.

 

[Caz]

Thanks for all your encouragement and tips - they've cheered me up and provided some useful advice!

I went back for another look and the bees were still clustered on the side of the next door hive. I've come to the conclusion the box I'm trying to use isn't much use - so I'll consider alternatives for next time - but by hook and by crook I managed to get the majority of bees into the hive. I definitely need to work on my technique!

I'm confident the queen must be in there now as they were fanning at the entrance - and there were only a couple of clusters of bees left outside (which I had a good look at to check the queen wasn't amongst them.)

I've got a glass crown-board on so I'll go and have a look tomorrow when I get home from work. Fingers crossed my bees will still be in the hive. I'm so exhausted I don't think I could cope with having to replay today again tomorrow!

I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[enrico]

Give them a good feed if they are still in there
E

 

[Illo]

Sounds promising, well done!

The first time we did this, the swarm was high in a tree and half of the bees fell into the hedge on the way down. We didn't know whether we got the queen, but kept fingers crossed. They behaved much like yours, and it turned out that we didn't have the queen, and the next morning they had all gone!

A luck would have it, they didn't go very far, and all gathered in the hedge, presumably where the queen and her half of the bees fell the night before. So we had another go, shoved a box into the hedge and got them on the second attempt.

Well done for pursuing the queen...and for retrieving your bees. They'll be settled in in no time by the sound of things!

LJ

 

[Caz]

Hi All,

Just wanted to let you know that when I checked the hive tonight the bees were still in there!

This has been a great learning experience but I'm hoping that now the Queen has had a chance to stretch her wings she'll decide to stay put.

As they've been in there about 24 hours now are the likely to stay?

I'd normally inspect again on Saturday - can I go ahead and do that as normal (assuming they are still there)?

Thanks,

C

 

[susbees]

I would leave them be....watch the hive entrance for signs of pollen going in, and if you're tight on forage feed them if they're on foundation (1:1). A QE over the floor is useful for keeping swarms in. When you did your AS did you put a frame of brood in the box?

 

[Caz]

The QE sounds like a great idea.

There was 1 frame of brood in the hive when I did my AS. After they'd swarmed I removed the frame of brood and just left them with foundation.