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Beebe 

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Oh dear dear
Oh dear @Finman
I assume that you're trying to say that I'm stupid to think that swarming is the way we get more bees. I mean that in any healthy colony, the tendency to swarm is obviously just the outward sign of the instinct, which they share with most humans, to reproduce.

The other day you were saying that bee health and disease resistance has no connection with Darwinian genetics; and then you suggested that replacing a queen could remove some common disease problems with a colony, which is to immediately change the genetics. I know you're an expert and you've kept bees since before the wheel was invented, but maybe you are sometimes too quick to find amusement rather than sharing your excellent range of knowledge.
 

B+. 

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Oh dear @Finman
I assume that you're trying to say that I'm stupid to think that swarming is the way we get more bees. I mean that in any healthy colony, the tendency to swarm is obviously just the outward sign of the instinct, which they share with most humans, to reproduce.

The other day you were saying that bee health and disease resistance has no connection with Darwinian genetics; and then you suggested that replacing a queen could remove some common disease problems with a colony, which is to immediately change the genetics. I know you're an expert and you've kept bees since before the wheel was invented, but maybe you are sometimes too quick to find amusement rather than sharing your excellent range of knowledge.
With respect, the question has been answered many times. Those of us who have been around a while have answered them already. If beginners perused the past replies, they'd find the answer.
It gets a bit tedious answering the same point after a while.
 

BugsInABox 

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all bees are geared to swarm, how do you know whether the ones you catch are 'swarmy' unless you know the colony's history? I've always found that statement to be a wee bit ridiculous
But isn’t it that non swarmy bees will less likely have swarmed, so on the average.....
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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But isn’t it that non swarmy bees will less likely have swarmed, so on the average.....
but also it could have been the first time the colony has swarmed in donkeys.
There are many triggers for swarming, hardly any are due to 'genetics' I bet the majority are down to poor management.
 

BugsInABox 

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With respect, the question has been answered many times. Those of us who have been around a while have answered them already. If beginners perused the past replies, they'd find the answer.
It gets a bit tedious answering the same point after a while.
Some forums police this and I’m glad we don’t. But possibly easy for me to say as I’m rarely the one answering the Q’s.
 

BugsInABox 

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but also it could have been the first time the colony has swarmed in donkeys.
There are many triggers for swarming, hardly any are due to 'genetics' I bet the majority are down to poor management.
Yea could have been, but on the average? Though I’m not sure what difference it makes - I’d bite the hands off any swarm that arrives just now.
 

Beebe 

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It gets a bit tedious answering the same point after a while.
With respect; no-one is forced to reply to anything once, never mind answering it repeatedly to different people, but it's very generous of anyone who does so. And I don't think that the man from Finland was responding to @Curly green finger's original question.
 

B+. 

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But isn’t it that non swarmy bees will less likely have swarmed, so on the average.....
The argument that we only have bees because they reproduce by swarming is a spurious one. Many domesticated animals are "guided" in their reproduction by farmers/vets/etc. The same is possible with bees, although the scale of reproduction necessary would require investment and effort on behalf of the beekeeper.
Controlled mating opens up possibilities that, our present, uncontrolled/random production process doesn't.
 

Michael ECB's 

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but also it could have been the first time the colony has swarmed in donkeys.
There are many triggers for swarming, hardly any are due to 'genetics' I bet the majority are down to poor management.
I would like to throw my 10 cents worth here....
This is from what I have seen with my colonies and local bees... Perhaps different on your side of the pond?

Small wild colonies with limited space swarm often here- as do abandoned bee hives...
Larger colonies with unlimited and IDEAL space tend to just get bigger and bigger and actually become quit dangerous...
Swarming in my opinion it is a result of Poor management to a degree, but, queen excluders also play a big role, a very productive queen with a good forage available for workers will outgrow a brood box quickly often catching the keeper unaware... Especially if she is unable to find open comb and lay..

I no longer use Q excluders and only use brood deeps as supers... If I dont have the time to attend to an apiary and things get out of hand I have found that the queen will move up to the middle 3 or 4 frames in box No2... - Colony becomes a double brood and has a good supply of stores... Win Win
Come spring, rotate boxes and go on.
I also have a lid fitted with an addition 40mm of space,,, the minute I see comb being started here I will crack open the bottom and look for swarm cells...
That 40mm helps me a lot...
This is what I would prefer calling a "Supervised Neglect" approach to bee keeping... is it perfect = No - But it works for me...
 

Finman 

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Oh dear @Finman
I assume that you're trying to say that I'm stupid to think that swarming is the way we get more bees. I mean that in any healthy colony, the tendency to swarm is obviously just the outward sign of the instinct, which they share with most humans, to reproduce.

The other day you were saying that bee health and disease resistance has no connection with Darwinian genetics; and then you suggested that replacing a queen could remove some common disease problems with a colony, which is to immediately change the genetics. I know you're an expert and you've kept bees since before the wheel was invented, but maybe you are sometimes too quick to find amusement rather than sharing your excellent range of knowledge.
After 60 years beekeeping it is new to me that bees swarm.

A hint: To get more bees is brood rearing.

That is strange: " bee disease and health has no connection".

A hint: to have disease = not healthy= sick
.
 
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Finman 

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but also it could have been the first time the colony has swarmed in donkeys.
There are many triggers for swarming, hardly any are due to 'genetics' I bet the majority are down to poor management.
It is genetics. Bees' basic instinct.

What means "majority"

My hives swarmed 100% amd when I bought new queens, they swarmed 0%. Don' t try to explain, because you do not have knowledge to that phenomenom. The reason is 2500 km distance between us, and you cannot see this far.
 

Curly green finger's 

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The argument that we only have bees because they reproduce by swarming is a spurious one. Many domesticated animals are "guided" in their reproduction by farmers/vets/etc. The same is possible with bees, although the scale of reproduction necessary would require investment and effort on behalf of the beekeeper.
Controlled mating opens up possibilities that, our present, uncontrolled/random production process doesn't.
True, we can do all this.
I have the same genetics spread out over the South Shropshire hills each locality is creating differences in the colonys, there is consistency with build up in each location some swarming there is more to breading than rearing.
 

Beebe 

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The argument that we only have bees because they reproduce by swarming is a spurious one. Many domesticated animals are "guided" in their reproduction by farmers/vets/etc. The same is possible with bees, although the scale of reproduction necessary would require investment and effort on behalf of the beekeeper.
Controlled mating opens up possibilities that, our present, uncontrolled/random production process doesn't.
I's not anything I've argued...it's a simple fact of nature, isn't it? I'm meaning what I said in a lighthearted way as in "the only way we have calves is because bulls have the need to "service" cows." Obviously humans have the ability to take the act of natural mating out of the equation, but that will never remove the basic urge to reproduce, and swarming is an intrinsic part of that process.

There's no need to get heavy on this and feel you need to protect your favoured method of bee reproduction....I'm not against it. :)
 

Finman 

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Oh dear @Finman
I assume that you're trying to say that I'm stupid to think that swarming is the way we get more bees. I mean that in any healthy colony, the tendency to swarm is obviously just the
I can tell to you that sick bees swarm too.

Swarming is bee's only way to reproduce, if you do not know. And that has happened before the humans started to walk on globe.

Do we need this level wisdom in beekeeping information? Propably yes.
 

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