queens disapearing

[Norton]

Although I don't like to say it, as it could be taken incorrectly, is that Greek bees are more prone to Nosema than some other types.

 

[Baggyone]

The only thing I can think of is that the old queens pheromone was still there and the bees kill the new queen. Let them be queenless for a few days, cut out the queen cells making them hopelessly queenless then introduce the queen cage.

baggy

My own recent experience

Two queens laying succesfully in nucs for maybe 6 weeks, queens removed and caged, passed from local beek to me. (total journey miles about 20 but the queens will end up in hives about 2 miles from their orignal location)

Next day dequeened donor hives, introduced new queens in cages, week later cages empty, no evidence of a laying queen in either hive, no queens spotted.

Suspect:

a) Bad beekeeping (missed scrawny supersedure queen that is not laying in either hive)

b) The queens have gone from marked and clipped to invisible status and have have gone off lay (no reason as there is plenty of balsam around)

c) Someone stole the queens

d) The workers decided they want to die

e) ?

 

[mbc]

So how does it spread from bee to bee?
It is a well known fact that old combs are nurseries for both Nosema and foulbrood. Regular comb renewal is a good management practice and a great help in prevention. Using old combs is bad management - ask your bee inspector about this.

Research has clearly shown that early removal of young queens from their mating nucs is a major factor in poor acceptance and increases the chance of supercedure later on. Queens should be left laying in their mating nuc for at least three weeks, two months is a whole lot better, before being sold/introduced into production colonies.

I agree about the early removal of young queens being an issue with acceptance, but the "well known fact" you quote is nonsense. For foulbrood or nosema to multiply AFAIK it only happens within the bees themselves so to call old combs nurseries is factually incorrect, a depository or repository maybe but I've seen far too many thriving colonies on old black comb that would make the inspector shudder to believe that ageing comb from healthy colonies somehow accumulate pathogens.

 

[m100]

The only thing I can think of is that the old queens pheromone was still there and the bees kill the new queen. Let them be queenless for a few days, cut out the queen cells making them hopelessly queenless then introduce the queen cage.

In hindsight that might have worked but I've done that before and still had the odd failure.

It's a pain but hopefully recoverable (mating queens this late will be a problem as the site is 'at altitude' I have a spare but far less strong colony on 14x12's with a 2012 queen. I'll unite the supers over the new colony and put the old brood at the top of the stack above a QE and let any brood emerge, giving me a stronger colony into winter and any 'queen' in that box will get abandoned.

 

[newportbuzz]

could be nosema.
i know some of the queens that it has happened to were raised in mating nucs which are quite a stressful spot for bees.

however the one i mentioned. has 3 sister queens all from the same breeder and most related and the mating nucs stocked from the same hives and mated from the same apiary. yet 3 of her sisters are still happily laying up my hives.

as for the old kit/combs it doesnt afect this hive as its an experimant i am runing and is a new KTB hive with freshly built wax.

i will send some of the bees off for sampleing. i was going to test all the hives in any case.
ohh btw the KTB was feed thymolated syrup during its buildup so nosema should be minimal even if present.

however i have had a nosema queen before and all she did was stop laying for months on end till i figured out what was going on. 2 and a half months of queen present and not a single egg. this doesnt seem to be the case here.

 

[Norton]

For foulbrood or nosema to multiply AFAIK it only happens within the bees themselves so to call old combs nurseries is factually incorrect, a depository or repository maybe but I've seen far too many thriving colonies on old black comb that would make the inspector shudder to believe that ageing comb from healthy colonies somehow accumulate pathogens.

Well I guess you are going to have to learn the hard way.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, with an attitude like this, if foulbrood doesn't get you, then Nosema must.

 

[Finman]

.
As far I understand the best shield against nosema is good pollen pastures and pollen stores. As you have told in UK, hives have stopped brooding in many cases and again to that, reason is lack of pollen.

Pollen mixture is a source of healthy bees. Honey gives only energy.

Strains of bees may be too sensivity to nosema.
Once I bought 3 new queens. It revieled that my whole stock was sensitive to nosema.
New colonies wintered perfectly, but not those other hives.

 

[Poly Hive]

Which in turn goes back to weather. Poor weather = no pollen which in turn = stress.

PH

 

[m100]

.
As far I understand the best shield against nosema is good pollen pastures and pollen stores. As you have told in UK, hives have stopped brooding in many cases and again to that, reason is lack of pollen.
.

A few things I have noticed this year that are not typical

There have been large brood breaks and sometimes a very restricted brood area, not unexpected given the weather

Many hives appear to have stored significantly more pollen than normal rather than use it more or less as it arrives. I've recently had some frames with nearly every cell packed with identical coloured pollen, possibly privet as it's the nearest thing to the hives.

Even during June and July honey stores have appeared to the side and below the brood area rather than just above

 

[user 6228]

.
As far I understand the best shield against nosema is good pollen pastures and pollen stores. As you have told in UK, hives have stopped brooding in many cases and again to that, reason is lack of pollen.

Pollen mixture is a source of healthy bees. Honey gives only energy.
...

pollen? interesting... We have 5 hives
all decendants/splits from same hive roughly similar numbers of bees from late june.

3 go off lay/supercede
2 really prosper (so far)

All in Poly or better

The 3 going off lay were on mesh floors with conventional entrances and supers as they were moving fast ast one time.

The 2 prospering were on insulated solid floors with "dartington style" entrances and supers (they really need it )

All appear to have adequate nectar/honey/pollen at all times... locale is mixture of surbia, heath and woodland

too small a sample to be statistically significant but interesting...

 

[Norton]

contaminated combs are the vector for infection.
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=191
Further reading in the PDF at the bottom of the page.

 

[mbc]

Well I guess you are going to have to learn the hard way.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, with an attitude like this, if foulbrood doesn't get you, then Nosema must.

I'm bemused that you think an attitude of trying to understand what are actually facts and what is commonly believed fiction could make someone more susceptible to foulbrood or nosema ?!!
I'd imagine that the risk factor involved with sharing old black comb from an otherwise healthy colony is far slighter than sending bees and materials in bulk consignments accross international boundaries.

 

[mbc]

contaminated combs are the vector for infection.
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=191
Further reading in the PDF at the bottom of the page.

Contaminated combs can be a vector for infection.

 

[Norton]

If you are referring to my own exports, then you already know that all are imported with a valid EU health certificate issued after checks have been carried out by the veterinary department that the bees are free of any disease, which is more than can be said for any exports made from wildest west Wales to other parts of the UK.

 

[Norton]

This link arrived today from Bee Craft, it look like it is nearly a year old:
http://news.uk.msn.com/environment/honey-bee-disease-found-in-scotland

Last paragraph fits in with previous posts.

 

[newportbuzz]

ok so lets accept for the point of figuring out how and why that nosema is possibly the culprit....
is it nosema with the queen or with the colony and how is it causing queens to go missing leaving their colonys queenless?

and how can it be prevented/fought

 

[Hivemaker.]

how is it causing queens to go missing leaving their colonys queenless?

They just drop dead.

 

[bees4u]

hi has anyone else noticed a lot of queens dissapering and leaving the hive queenless.

i have spoken to a few larger beeks over here and they are saying up to 30% of their hives have gone queenless in the last few weeks.
i have had this happen with a few of mine aswell. anyone else noticing this aswell. or have any insight to whats going on?

i am leaning to supercedure gone wrong but i could be wrong. i know for my own hives the queens are young and in one case only introduced a month ago.
whats seems to be weird is they are leaving the hives queenless implying its the virgin that is actually lost and the old queen killed. or the old queen stops laying and is killed when its to late to make cells.

could be my problem, balling!

 

[newportbuzz]

They just drop dead.

so where are the queencells?

 

[Hivemaker.]

so where are the queencells?

They cannot make queen cells if they have no eggs or small larvae.