Queenless?

[melias]

I have two colonies. One is very active with bees bringing in lots of pollen. The other (which was previously the stronger of the two) is much less active and no pollen is being brought in.

My questions are:
1) Should I assume that my colony is queenless?
2) If it is queenless, can I introduce a queen this early in the season?
3) I saw on another post that it may make sense to introduce a frame of brood from the stronger hive, so that they can create a queen cell. Does that work?

Grateful for your thoughts..

 

[Silly Bee]

Personally I'd not panic just yet. I have four hives, quite close together, all have different periods of activity.

As a for instance, yesterday one was buzzing, the others ok'ish

Today its role reversal.

 

[Poly Hive]

Too early to worry about it some Q+ units are still broodless.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Don't worry yet - i have three hives virtually side by side one is very active the other two are quiet with just the sign of the odd bee - two weeks ago the one that is now active had no sign of bees the other two did, i suppose it's just how they feel on the day!

 

[oliver90owner]

1) No.

2) Possible.

3) Senseless now. Much later, yes, but likely better to unite them and split later - a far better alternative in most cases.

4) Stop worrying. It will not help.

 

[RoofTops]

No point in trying to get them to raise a queen at this time of year. They just might but there are no drones around for the queen to mate with. A few people report drones in their hives in winter but even if you had one of these I'm not sure I would want them mating with a new queen - undesirable traits and all that.

Not before about May, depending on the season and location.

 

[REDWOOD]

Two hives are out (dark bees) and the other hive just poking thier noses out (light bees) I dont know if colour or strain makes a difference.

 

[Beeline]

One of my two hives has been very inactive and bringing in very little pollen. When I applied OA at end Dec they were on 7 frames.

As it is warm here today I whipped off the crownboard to investigate. They're now down to 2-3 frames and on inspection found no worker brood at all and a mere handful of drone brood. I caught this swarm of dark bees in late July and they never reared any drones until December when suddenly, loads of them. It had me worried then.

Well it looks like HM has popped her clogs.

They're currently in a wooden national.

A)Should I transfer them into a polynuc and add a frame of brood from my other hive in the hope they'll raise a queen at this very early stage of the year. There are still quite a few drones in this hive to mate with. OR

B) Combine? OR

C) Buy a mated queen now from an online retailer and try my luck. I'd appreciate any advice on which company I could contact.

Thanks.

 

[Poly Hive]

Personally I would write them off.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Well it looks like HM has popped her clogs.

Are you sure? Probably not, but a drone layer. Must be sure, if there is anything to unite.

See post #5

 

[RoofTops]

I'm with PH - write them off. If there is a drone laying queen in there then the remaining bees are probably getting long in the tooth and are about to expire so in my view there is little to be gained by uniting them - just adding more hungry mouths into an existing colony and if you miss the queen and transfer her as well then you could end up with both colonies dead.

Not worth the risk for any small potential gain.

 

[Poly Hive]

Yup.

As for in general now, no worker brood does in no way denote anything yet, it is still way early to assess the status. It was not unusual in Aberdeenshire for it to bee the third week in March before laying commenced. So expecting to see slabs of worker brood yet is just a little forward hmm?

PH

 

[Beeline]

remaining bees are probably getting long in the tooth and are about to expire

RT- Aren't they ALL getting long in the tooth assuming she would normally stop laying in December?

Why not buy in a mated queen and transfer the 3 frames of bees into a nuc? £40 vs £160 for a new nuc of 5 frames of bees. Is this a dead cert waste of money based on your experience.

 

[Poly Hive]

anyone got queens for sale at the moment?

Stopped in December? More likely late October.

Old codgers are under stress are queenless and distressed and possibly turned into drone layers.

Worth a £40 queen if you could find one... not in my book.

Write them off and make a split later in the year and all is well for none of the expense.

There is such a thing as throwing good money after bad.

PH

 

[Beeline]

I appreciate the comments PH.

I know you experienced beeks have been here before and know when to cut loose. It was my first swarm, nice black bees and somehow feel I need to explore all possible avenues before throwing in the towel.

 

[Poly Hive]

I truly appreciate that feeling but there is a line past which it is not worth going financially or emotionally.

It takes a while but one learns to take the hit and plan to replace later in the season.

Good luck

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Sorry but in your position they, PH and Rooftops, are talking tw*ddle, IMO.

Sure, give up on the gene line - the queen is as good as dead; when the workers die, as they will, there will be no trace left.

However, not uniting two/three frames of workers is a wasted resource. Given the opportunity I would, as I say, in your position, remove the queen and drone brood and unite at the earliest opportunity.

Rooftops must be very poor at finding the queen (to remove her) from only three frames). I am quite sure you would be absolutely definite she has gone before uniting the workers. There will not be a laying worker problem while there is a laying queen present.

You only need two/three weeks work out of them (before they expire) to be streets ahead with the stronger colony (if indeed it is strong). Almost an extra brood cycle worth of emerging bees. A very good head start towards splitting later.

Of course, your other hive may not be that strong and would very much benefit from just a few bees, I don't know.

Now, if the queen is not there, it is a different scenario, and laying workers would be an obvious problem, and I would not try to unite.

Now if I were back in my shoes, I would likely just let them go, but might investigate the worth of adding them to a weak colony. It would cost me nothing except the effort and I would not be worried either way.

I know what you will do. You will follow my advice and not give up immediately, as you do not yet know the situation with your other colony.... You can always decide to abort any attempt at uniting, but if you don't at least investigate further, you might lose more than you think.

Regards, RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

Fair enough but what if there are laying workers in there?

Two colones lost not one.

OP? Is the drone brood regular or miss-shapen?

PH

 

[richardbees]

It's to early to give up

Why not buy glazed cover boards?

As a 'hobbyist' beekeeper with only a couple of hives I wouldn't do without them. All through the winter I can take the roof off, remove a slab of insulation, look down and see where the cluster is.

richard

 

[oliver90owner]

Fair enough but what if there are laying workers in there?

I thought about that, too.

Here is some of what I wrote in post #17.

There will not be a laying worker problem while there is a laying queen present.

Now, if the queen is not there, it is a different scenario, and laying workers would be an obvious problem, and I would not try to unite.

And a comment like that, about laying workers, from someone who, IIRC, claimed they had never experienced laying workers in how many years as a professional beekeeper?