Queenless options

[Taliesin]

I'd be grateful for your expert opinions:

I've got a hive on double brood that has done really well in Spring and early summer. About 6 weeks ago they decided to supercede the queen and, although I spotted a virgin queen 4 weeks ago, she's no longer there - presumably either taken during a mating flight (the swallows hang around in the evening) or maybe just not accepted.

As a result, I've got a big hive, with lots of bees who've been queenless about 5 weeks.

Inspected last weekend - they're very calm given they're queenless, no eggs or brood and busily filling frames with nectar and pollen, so I put in a test frame from another hive. Yesterday afternoon, the test frame had multiple queen cells.

Seems like I have a few options:
1. I could let them get on with it and raise a new queen - though it'll be late in the season by the time she's laying and the number of drones will be declining.
2. or, I could get a new queen and introduce her with 2 new frames of brood (getting rid ofthe QCs first) - but not sure how successful that will be given they've been queenless for so long. Advantage would be to get a laying queen in there right away.
3. or, I could unite with a queenright nuc
4. or, I could go with option 1 and, if it fails, then have options 2 or 3 as back-up.

What do you think?
Thanks for your help.

 

[mintmoth]

Not an expert opinion, but...

You've got queen cells. 16 days to emergence. Up to 19 days for the queen to get mated and start to lay. Wait another 8 days for first sealed brood so you can see if it's worker or drone. That's 43 days before you are sure you have a successfully mated queen.

That's going to be the middle of August, which is a bit late to start the whole process over again if she's a wrong 'un.

Happened to me last year. The people more experienced than me (which is just about everyone) that I asked, including an SBI all said wait, it may be OK. Ended up with a drone layer and too few bees to save the colony.

 

[Taliesin]

Thanks Mintmoth.
Day 16 will be 16th July, add a couple of weeks for hanging around the hive and mating flights (weather permitting) and experience here is 21-28 days before laying. That takes us to approx 20th August. Doesn't leave much time to build up the brood nest before winter, does it?
Maybe combining with a nuc now is the best option.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Let them raise their own queen - it's the middle of summer so plenty of time for one to mate and be ready for winter

 

[Taliesin]

Thanks JBM

 

[Wingy]

No expert but my personal experience. Started last July with a cast swarm, VQ and about 1000 or so bees. About a week later VQ was missing and never returned. Advice was they are doomed and left to dwindle. Mid August I was given a mated Q and introduced her to about 300 bees. Yes they built up and over wintered. Now I have 3 strong hives from them, 2 on double brood.
So from my experience there is loads of time to build up and over winter with a bit of care.

 

[Swarm]

Taliesin,
I have a six frame nucleus with a 2018 marked, laying queen. She has an orange backside so does not feature in any future plans. You are welcome to them if it will help you out. Send me a pm if you're interested.

 

[Tony19]

Posted to wrong thread......sorry!

 

[Taliesin]

Thanks all

Swarm - that’s very kind of you. I’m going to see if they can successfully raise their own, so should know in a couple of weeks if that’s worked out. If it doesn’t, I’ll drop you a PM.

 

[Clemcook]

Plenty of time, my most successful hive was made through a late split in August last year

 

[Clemcook]

.,.......

 

[Swarm]

Thanks all

Swarm - that’s very kind of you. I’m going to see if they can successfully raise their own, so should know in a couple of weeks if that’s worked out. If it doesn’t, I’ll drop you a PM.

As I said, surplus to requirement, in a couple of weeks they would probably have supers on, her sister is waiting for her fourth. They are only in a nuc because they donated brood but they need space now.