Queenless hive

[Levitt53]

I've looked into my possibly Queenless hive today with an experienced beekeeper and we can't find any brood so have concluded that they are Queenless. History:

7 May poly hive arrived with one full super.

9 May swarmed.

11 May inspected with beekeeper who I got them from and found lots of queen cells is various forms including one that was piping.

14 May cold and windy day but on advice from you guys I went in to open all capped queen cells to release all virgins. Only found one capped one which on investigation was larvae so this obviously was destroyed in the process.

Today's inspections showed them to be bloodless so I assume they had cast and the capped queen cell that I destroyed was their hope of re-queening (Ho hum!).

I have another hive with a swarm (not from my hive) which is coming along nicely. It had 2.5 frames of brood today. The beekeeper who helped me today (not the one who sold me the hive) said to leave them all another week for the swarm to build up further then swap frame of eggs from the swarm with a frame of stores from the q- hive the leave them alone (assuming obviously that there is still no brood when I look). I'm going on holiday on Monday 5th July so am thinking I will leave them alone until 3-4th July when I will have to inspect them. Presumably if they haven't requeened by then then they are doomed, or I could looks to combining the two colonies although I haven't read up on that yet. Anything else I should think about or any problems with my plan.

TIA

 

[Swarm]

May 11th and piping coming from a capped cell. Lots more in varying stages.
When you looked again on the 14th, what was that piping cell looking like?
What was colony behaviour like today, did they seem calm and happy?

 

[Levitt53]

The one that was piping had hatched. I assume all the open ones had hatched as there was nothing in any of them except on one with the larvae. Their behaviour since has been fine. They are calm to inspect and they've been bringing in pollen etc. Maybe I need to leave it a couple of weeks then move eggs in and inspect once I'm home from holiday in 15th.

 

[Swarm]

The one that was piping had hatched. Maybe I need to leave it a couple of weeks.

This is what I was hinting at. I think they'll be fine and in a couple of weeks you'll be finding brood.

 

[Swarm]

The beek who sold you this colony obviously hadn't checked them beforehand, did he seem a little embarrassed when you found all those swarm cells?

 

[Levitt53]

Ok. I'm fine with that. I can't get all this timing right in my head. That'll give the swarm a bit more time to get strong. Thanks.

 

[Levitt53]

The beek who sold you this colony obviously hadn't checked them beforehand, did he seem a little embarrassed when you found all those swarm cells?

Yes I'll take that up with her. They hadn't been check this year so even in my inexperienced mind it was obvious that they would swarm.

 

[Swarm]

Ok. I'm fine with that. I can't get all this timing right in my head. That'll give the swarm a bit more time to get strong. Thanks.

It's all a learning curve. Worth swatting up on the swarming bit. Egg to capped 8 days. When you find charged cells, look at the size of the larva, it can give you some idea where you are. When you hear one piping, she is about to emerge, day 16. Either she or the bees will kill the rest or they may all get in line with warder bees sending off multiple casts. To avoid the latter, take the others down.

 

[Levitt53]

Yes I think it was a cast and then I inadvertently killed the remaining cell. The beekeeper who sold me the hive has now offered to buy me a new mated queen. Aaah. What to do. I think I've upset her.

 

[Swarm]

Yes I think it was a cast and then I inadvertently killed the remaining cell. The beekeeper who sold me the hive has now offered to buy me a new mated queen. Aaah. What to do. I think I've upset her.

Hang on, you tore down the cells after the piper emerged so she should still be in there. Wait a couple of weeks and look for signs of laying.
Don't worry about her being upset, that's just the embarrassment kicking in. She sold you a colony due to swarm, only right she should help you put it all right again.
A mated queen is something to consider if things don't pan out (but I reckon they will) but right now you'd probably find her dead soon afterwards.
Are there still a good number of bees? They don't always cast after a prime.

 

[Levitt53]

Yup loads of bees. All looks good except no brood. I'll hang on two weeks I think. I could always combine this with my swarm as another option.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I bet you have a queen in there and you will have brood when you get back from your hols

 

[Levitt53]

I bet you have a queen in there and you will have brood when you get back from your hols

What without putting a frame of eggs in there? can you explain the timing for me please?

 

[Erichalfbee]

11 May inspected with beekeeper who I got them from and found lots of queen cells is various forms including one that was piping.

This one?
Three weeks ago.
Emerging, maturing, mating all takes time and mating will be delayed by the bad weather you reported

 

[Levitt53]

But won't all the existing bees be dead by then. If the last queen left on 9th may so probably the youngest eggs were laid on 8th. They would all be dead within 9 weeks (21 days to emerge, live for about 6 weeks). This takes us to 10th July. Won't they be doomed by then or do they live longer in a Queenless state or something. I may have got my maths completely wrong though.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Bees that do not have to feed brood live much longer. So no....they will not be dead

 

[Levitt53]

Ah ok. I did't know that. Makes sense I suppose. Thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

11 May inspected with beekeeper who I got them from and found lots of queen cells is various forms including one that was piping.

This one?
Three weeks ago.
Emerging, maturing, mating all takes time and mating will be delayed by the bad weather you reported

But won't all the existing bees be dead by then..

I think you need to do quite a bit more reading about bees.
It was only three weeks ago - still plenty of time for the queen to mate successfully (unless, of course you listen to the forum f.. err cuckoo)
I'm with EricH, next time you look there will be brood in there.

 

[Levitt53]

I think you need to do quite a bit more reading about bees.
It was only three weeks ago - still plenty of time for the queen to mate successfully (unless, of course you listen to the forum f.. err cuckoo)
I'm with EricH, next time you look there will be brood in there.

i couldn't find a comprehensive timescale about when a queen gets mated. I didn't realise they live longer with no brood to look after (have never read that anywhere). I think I'm guilty of the beginners sin of being impatient. I'll wait (and read!). Thanks for your help all.

 

[Swarm]

Levitt, the bees seldom do wrong, bless them. I find when the beek misses a step, leave it to the bees and they'll sort it out.
They let you know when things are wrong and they let you know when they are happy and doing their thing. Lots of bees all happy and waiting for the big day when she begins to lay and the cycle starts again.
During inspections today I discovered a splended new queen with striking, orange dragon scales, happily walking the combs and eggs galore. This was a colony that really didn't know what they wanted to do (or so it seemed to the beek) so I left them alone to get on with it. I guess they did.