Queen cell appearing in nuc split from full hive

[The Riviera Kid]

Back in May, during a break in the cold, windy, wet weather, I inspected my bees and in one hive found some unsealed queen cells on the first few frames. I found the queen (not got my notes with me but she is at least 3 years old) on a middle frame and whipped it out and made up a four-frame (plus dummy board) nuc with drawn-out foundation. Going through the rest of the hive I found more unsealed queen cells, and then one (recently) sealed one. I was a bit surprised they hadn't swarmed but the weather had been more like Ocotber.

I took the nuc to another site and a few days later I examined it and all was well and the queen had just started to lay. A few days later still and I found lots of eggs and fresh nectar and pollen. A week or so later (on June 11) I inspected again and almost every available cell on all the frames was filled with textbook worker brood (and the occasional drone) perfectly sealed - with a single soon-to-be-sealed queen cell at the bottom of one.

This queen has been prolific and it's unsurprising that she has filled a nuc with eggs/brood so quickly but I was surprised to find the queen cell. If the frames had been half empty or with lots of drone brood I would conclude that they are superceding. Maybe the bees know something that I don't and they are, indeed, superceding. This is what I think is happening, even though the queen seems to be performing fine to me.

I probably should have replaced the dummy board on my second visit with another frame but what is the likelihood that, having run out of laying space so quickly, they are not superceding and preparing to swarm?

Any thoughts or comments appreciated!

 

[oliver90owner]

If you took it to another site far enough away, the colony would have carried on as though you had just weakened it and is possibly in swarm mode again, now that the space is cramped. There was a period of warm and possibly good foraging weather recently. Four frames is tiny for a colony after possibly two brood cycles.

You are the beekeeper and need to make up your mind. Either it is or it is not. I reckon you have missed a couple of tricks and got yourself into this indecisive state of affairs. One thing you do not need is a swarm from a four frame colony, that is for sure!

 

[MartinL]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
she has filled a nuc with eggs/brood so quickly but I was surprised to find the queen cell. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I probably should have replaced the dummy board on my second visit with another frame but what is the likelihood that, having run out of laying space so quickly, they are not superceding and preparing to swarm?

Any thoughts or comments appreciated!

If the are so restricted, why would they do anything else?

 

[The Riviera Kid]

I reckon you have missed a couple of tricks and got yourself into this indecisive state of affairs. One thing you do not need is a swarm from a four frame colony, that is for sure!

Yes for sure I don't want a swarm from a four-colony nuc! When I split them I realised that I'd forgotten to bring all the empty frames I needed, so I put in what I had with me that day. They have 6 frames now.

If they were in a swarm cycle (rather than supercedure) when in the original hive, would the poor weather have been enough to stop them swarming? I've been reading through a few threads on here and a lot of posters are commenting that their bees have been swarming in spite of the poor weather conditions.

I will go see them today and have another look.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When you do a nuc type A/S split whatever you want to call it you shouldn't take the Q+ nuc to another site - leave it a few feet away from the Q- hive for a few days for all the foragers/flying bees to return there. If you immediately take the nuc away to a site quite a distance away it will still have a good quantity of foragers - and they are the swarm instigators.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

When you do a nuc type A/S split whatever you want to call it you shouldn't take the Q= nuc to another site - leave it a few feet away from the Q- hive for a few days for all the foragers/flying bees to return there. If you immediately take the nuc away to a site quite a distance away it will still have a good quantity of foragers - and they are the swarm instigators.

Good point. I hadn't thought of that!

 

[The Riviera Kid]

I suppose that what I am trying to say is that I have split colonies like this more times than I care to count but every time in the past, the Q+ nuc has just got on with it and started building up again.

This is the first nuc in scores where they have made a single queen cell after splitting.

 

[oliver90owner]

Good point. I hadn't thought of that!

Think a bit more about it, though. Those original foragers will be dead and gone in a very few weeks after the split. Might not have been any of them left by the time new swarm preparations were started?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Back in May, during a break in the cold, windy, wet weather, I inspected my bees and in one hive found some unsealed queen cells on the first few frames. I found the queen (not got my notes with me but she is at least 3 years old) on a middle frame and whipped it out and made up a four-frame (plus dummy board) nuc with drawn-out foundation. Going through the rest of the hive I found more unsealed queen cells, and then one (recently) sealed one. I was a bit surprised they hadn't swarmed but the weather had been more like Ocotber.

I took the nuc to another site and a few days later I examined it and all was well and the queen had just started to lay. A few days later still and I found lots of eggs and fresh nectar and pollen. A week or so later (on June 11) I inspected again and almost every available cell on all the frames was filled with textbook worker brood (and the occasional drone) perfectly sealed - with a single soon-to-be-sealed queen cell at the bottom of one.

This queen has been prolific and it's unsurprising that she has filled a nuc with eggs/brood so quickly but I was surprised to find the queen cell. If the frames had been half empty or with lots of drone brood I would conclude that they are superceding. Maybe the bees know something that I don't and they are, indeed, superceding. This is what I think is happening, even though the queen seems to be performing fine to me.

I probably should have replaced the dummy board on my second visit with another frame but what is the likelihood that, having run out of laying space so quickly, they are not superceding and preparing to swarm?

Any thoughts or comments appreciated!

If every cell is in use I'd not be wondering "if" but "when" overcrowding was going to trigger another swarm so yes you should have acted during your second visit. However just one frame may have been inadequate and knowing the provenance of the queen getting them into a full sized box may have been better. RAB and JBM have already covered your relocation error in their responses

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Visited today. Queen cell sealed but old queen still there. It's been a glorious day and if they were going to swarm then I'd expect them to have gone this afternoon. Supercedure methinks.