Prompt swarm advice sought for new keeper.

[asol]

I have one hive which has grown from a nuc I had in early June.
All has been well, I have maintained weekly inspections and all has been OK.
No QC and growth to approx 7 brood frames. Hive was looking very full just over a week ago so I added a super. So now hive=1 brood box and 1 super. Last inspection they had begun to draw out 3 frames of new foundation on the super.
About 1 hour ago masses of bees came out the hive, I was in the garden and saw everything. They thrashed in the air about 20ft away from hive. A group sort of settled on a fence post for about 5 mins then the swarm decayed. It seems they have settled back to the hive as I couldn't see any other activity in any other area and the hive was covered in bees. After about 1/2 hour from when they first emerged I presume the bees have gone back into the hive. Its all relatively quiet. I've had a look around but can't see a swarm. I'm going out again now to look.
Do you think there is a swarm out there somewhere and what is the best thing to do now. Inspect the hive and see if the queen is there?

I video'd it but the compression reduces the effect of the quantity of bees in the air.
My number of posts don't allow me to add a proper link but its here:- youtu.be/uytO48MNOeU

Thanks

 

[FreeFall]

Is your queen clipped?

 

[asol]

No, it's not clipped. Marked so at least I have half a chance of seeing her.

 

[Queens59]

Sounds like a play swarm, mine did it for 2 weeks earlier in the year.

Have they got all they need? Stores, pollen etc? If not they may feel thay have been given too much to do with too little. Also, what is your queen? Eg. this year/last year/unknown? This could also affect their behaviour...

 

[RoofTops]

Sounds as if they swarmed and then returned to the hive, which is what happens if the queen could not fly for some reason.

Do you know if your queen had been clipped?

I would check in front of the hive entrance, looking amongst the grass if there is any for the queen - she may have a few bees with her but could also be on her own. She may also be trying to find her way back into the hive and could end up underneath the varroa mesh - assuming you have one. This will show with a cluster of bees below the floor.

If you do find her then catch hold of her gently by a wing and introduce her back into the entrance and let her run back in.

I would not open the hive today but look ideally early tomorrow for queen cells. You will almost certainly find some. Do not leave the inspection too late in the day because if the queen is back in the hive they will probably try swarming again and everything will repeat itself.

If you found and reintroduced the queen I would remove all but one cell and then perform an artificial swarm. If you did not find the queen it is a bit more difficult as she may still have returned - and the only way is to check and try and find her.

If you cannot find her then you could leave all but one queen cell and let them raise another queen but what if you missed her? They will then probably try swarming again which I suppose gives you a second chance to look for her.

Another option, but this will only work if you have the equipmemt, is if you do find the queen on the grass, cage her and then make up a nuc, stealing bees and brood from your colony. You can then release your queen into the nuc and let the rest of the colony raise a new queen. The advantage of this is you keep the old queen as a back-up in case they cannot raise a new queen who goes on to lay.

There is also another possible explanation for the behaviour you saw. It is possible there is supercessation going on and they have raised a new queen which has gone on a mating flight. The bees can get a bit excited when this happens.

 

[asol]

Its a 2012 queen who seems to have been doing the right thing up to now, always eggs, larvae etc. Of course there could be in issue with stores. I did think they were a bit low so I added a quick feeder with 1:1 sugar syrup 2 days ago while we had the bad weather. I have to say I'm not sure about pollen stores. I didn't see much when I last inspected a few days ago but I see them bringing it in every day. They are in my back garden so I can see their activity daily.
I'll do some research on play swarms.

 

[asol]

Rooftops.
I'm 80% sure the queen is not clipped, I remember the lady who supplied the nuc telling me the queen will be marked but not clipped. However I have never actually checked so it remains a possibility.
I do have a mesh floor and there are indeed a large cluster of bees beneath it. However this isn't the first time this has happened. I've had it before when I had a smaller entrance and I assumed they had got confused. There is no tray under the OMF so easy contact with the rest of the colony.
So there is a possiblity that the queen is with this cluster. Will she be OK overnight or ought I try and brush them off and get them back into the hive. Last time I tried it though they weren't happy!

 

[Poly Hive]

have you checked for Queen cells and would you know one?

PH

 

[enrico]

As per ph post. You need to check for queen cells. You will rarely have a swarm without there being queen cells. If there is a sealed queen cell you can bet your bottom dollar the Queen will have gone, although that is not set in stone.
Your hive will want to swarm whenever it believes it is strong enough to do so and for both parts to survive, the art of a good beekeeper is to control this need to swarm in order that you keep both halves......good luck, sometimes you will get it right and other times, using the same methods you will fail miserably.
A swarm is a wonderful sight, and so satisfying when you successfully rehome it
Welcome to the forum
E

 

[ratcatcher]

cant help with advice on the bee's, but Id ask nextdoor if you could have the back half of their garden, seems they not to bothered

 

[BeeNice]

have you checked for Queen cells and would you know one?
I don't usually do the agree thing, but that is the first thing you should do to indicate what the bees are up to. Sealed or open queen cell are what you are looking for. When you have done that you can decide on your next step.
Cheers
Steven

 

[BeeNice]

Your hive will want to swarm whenever it believes it is strong enough to do so and for both parts to survive, the art of a good beekeeper is to control this need to swarm in order that you keep both halves
Sorry Erico, but bees will continue to swarm until the hive cannot survive, if there are enough queen cell. Thats why we 'try' and do swarm control. This year alot of the 'control' has gone out of the window.
Steven

 

[Poly Hive]

Bees will swarm to the degree of swarminess theyy genitically have.

Some will swarm until nothing is left or more properly cast...

Some will throw a prime and call it quits for the season.

The lovely few that I adore supercede. Bless them.

PH

 

[enrico]

Your hive will want to swarm whenever it believes it is strong enough to do so and for both parts to survive, the art of a good beekeeper is to control this need to swarm in order that you keep both halves
Sorry Erico, but bees will continue to swarm until the hive cannot survive, if there are enough queen cell. Thats why we 'try' and do swarm control. This year alot of the 'control' has gone out of the window.
Steven

I stand by what I said....they will 'swarm' when they are strong enough to do so, ie with a mated queen, the fact that they throw casts to extinction is another story entirely! ... But I am always happy to be proved wrong.... I apologise if I am!

 

[Poly Hive]

Swarminess to that extent is pretty rare. Never met in with it myself.

PH

 

[asol]

I'd have hoped that I'm savvy enough to spot a queen cell but now I'm even questioning my own ability. OK, I'm very new but I have taken the time to internet study lots and read a few of books. Perhaps I have been too cock sure that all is going well that I haven't spotted the wood for the trees. Time for the real learning to begin!
I understand that swarming doesn't usually happen without QC so something doesn't add up here.
I'll open the hive tomorrow with a new set of eyes and a bit more experience and perhaps I'll see those elusive cells. From what everyone is saying they will be there.

If I see the my old queen and QC I'll AS, if my queen has gone then I guess I'll leave it up to the remaining bees to sort themselves out.

I'll keep you informed.
Thanks all.

Ratcatcher.
I've already been there. Last time I asked he wanted building plot prices but its time I ask him again! Especially if I can manage to grow my apiary a little.

 

[Outlander]

Good luck with the bees hope you get them sorted

 

[enrico]

If you can't find HM then shake all the bb frames by lifting them off the runners and giving a smart move downwards within the bb, remove one frame first to allow you to do this. Look in every nook and cranny for q cells. Leave one only with a nice fat grub and royal jelly in which is still open. If they are all sealed then leave two just in case one has nothing in!! Be really careful not to damage the cells when you put the bb back together. Good luck
E

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Be really careful not to damage the cells when you put the bb back together

Giving all the frames a shake is a surefire way of damaging the QC's so first (if there are any) choose a good QC, carefully check that frame for the queen and put to one side - you can shake the rest of the frames as you will not be keeping those QC's anyway

 

[Martin G]

Some ideas

Scenario 1:
On your previous inspections was there fresh brood (eggs etc) perhaps a supercedure cell? (I know you said there was no QC but could you have missed a sup cell?)
I had a nuc earlier in the year which was building great, queen laying and all seemed fine. Once housed in a hive I left them for a few weeks and low and behold around 3 weeks later I heard piping. Sure enough I found a ‘small’ queen piping away assumed she was a virgin so left her alone. She’s mated and laying fine now so all’s good. Don’t know what happened to the original.

Could your bees have come out for a mating flight?

Scenario 2:
Did you disturb the bees when they started landing and grouping together? (Started to collect or anything)
If they had started to swarm and were disturbed or the queen failed to emerge then they may have returned, but only until they get another opportunity. Consider an AS? But it doesn’t sound large enough for that.

Just some ideas to through into the pot,

Martin