Play cups?

[mike99]

I have just done an inspection as I am going to my association Apiary tomorrow and the guy doing the course wants to go over what I am seeing in my hive.
The girls are very busy and getting quite big. They are starting to get a bit tetchy as well but not unduly. I suspect it's just me worrying too much without a back up.
The BB is still more or less the same with 3 frames of BIAS(I think). On either side is a part drawn frame of stores. one with just capped and uncapped honey and the other one with very dark pollen and honey.
I witnessed at least 3 Play Cups(??) on different frames. If Royal Jelly is white goo, then they have been filled with it.
As the queen is fresh this year, marked and clipped, should I be worried or is that just them trying to wind me up? I tore them down. Although thinking about it, if they were raising a new queen, could I start a Nuc with a frame of brood?

 

[Ian123]

If the play cups are charged then they are no longer play cups. If your colony is only 3 frames of brood the realistically they are to small to split for another nuc. Have a chat ASAP with your mentor there are obviously issues

 

[Millet]

Make sure they are not jam packed with stores in the brood box.. i will come and have a look if you are worried.. two of mine have been similar from the same Queen but i have extracted honey from brood frames and knocked down several play cups (one charged) and to date they are doing ok and filling supers.. they must be something not quite right though as that nuc colony should be on at least 6/7 frames of brood by now..

 

[mike99]

Thanks Steve. I will see what they say tomorrow. I might see if I can borrow a couple of drawn frames from the association to see if that frees up the log jam. As long as using another colonies frames is ok?
So if they are charged, they are intending to raise a new queen? They must not be happy with the current one. She moves between the frames of brood as I have found her on the outer frames both times.
They seem to be foraging well. They have only half drawn one super frame. I had the QE off but now it’s back on but it probably should come off again.

 

[Millet]

Thanks Steve. I will see what they say tomorrow. I might see if I can borrow a couple of drawn frames from the association to see if that frees up the log jam. As long as using another colonies frames is ok?
So if they are charged, they are intending to raise a new queen? They must not be happy with the current one. She moves between the frames of brood as I have found her on the outer frames both times.
They seem to be foraging well. They have only half drawn one super frame. I had the QE off but now it’s back on but it probably should come off again.

She could well be looking for somewhere to lay..

At the time that Queen was the most advanced out of three that is why you got her, things can change but you should not have these issues this year, however the mad hot weather is throwing a wild card for many at the moment, see what your mentor says tomorrow, i will be extracing brood frames tomorrow myself full of honey and putting them straight back on the hives.

 

[Beefriendly]

So if they are charged, they are intending to raise a new queen? They must not be happy with the current one. She moves between the frames of brood as I have found her on the outer frames both times.

Mike, this is an exceptional year.
Strange things are happening.
Knowing the heritage of your queen my temptation would be to simply knock down the cells. I have a similar situation, new queen from different lineage laying and the old bees are drawing a few queen cells in their attempt to remain true to their original background. As soon as new queens progeny emerge it should disappear.
But, of course, they may be recognizing something wrong with the queen...but I doubt it.

 

[mike99]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will see what appears. I think I knocked down all the QC’s. I might have a look again on Sunday to see if I have missed any.
As you say BF. Strange year but that may be due to me starting to keep bees. Butter side down is my life.

 

[mike99]

Thanks for the input everyone. I will see what appears. I think I knocked down all the QC’s. I might have a look again on Sunday to see if I have missed any.
As you say BF. Strange year but that may be due to me starting to keep bees. Butter side down is my life.

I went up to the association Apiary today with the notes from the inspection. I went through what I had seen and explained that I tore down the QC's. I got a drawn frame and came home and moved the frame next to the brood and put the drawn frame in it's place so the queen has a frame to lay on. I have also removed the Super as it was pointed out to me that they need to be encouraged to draw the next BB frames out. They had only drawn a bit of a super frame out in any case. I was also advised to put some syrup(1:1) to help with the drawing of the frames.
I did a quick check and I can still see Larvae in cells. There didn't appear to be any fresh QC constructions.
I am going to try and leave it a few days to see if they settle down and get on with a colony expansion. I am hoping that it is the end of QC's

 

[Millet]

I went up to the association Apiary today with the notes from the inspection. I went through what I had seen and explained that I tore down the QC's. I got a drawn frame and came home and moved the frame next to the brood and put the drawn frame in it's place so the queen has a frame to lay on. I have also removed the Super as it was pointed out to me that they need to be encouraged to draw the next BB frames out. They had only drawn a bit of a super frame out in any case. I was also advised to put some syrup(1:1) to help with the drawing of the frames.
I did a quick check and I can still see Larvae in cells. There didn't appear to be any fresh QC constructions.
I am going to try and leave it a few days to see if they settle down and get on with a colony expansion. I am hoping that it is the end of QC's

I knocked two Queen cells down today full of royal jelly and larvae which are the same bees as you have, i do not have a clue what is going on the Queen has room to lay and they have two supers on which they are filling so they are not overcrowded, personally i will keep knocking them down as they is nothing wrong with the Queen, maybe they have mated with a few drones from a swarmy colony..

 

[Ian123]

mike you will need to keep an eye, a small colony like yours should not be producing qcells....they have more than enough space in a bb and even if a slab of honey is in the way then thats easily sorted by dropping a new frame between brood and stores...ive had similar in the past and from experience the bees have a better idea whats going on than we do. At this time of year a small nuc making qcells is likely to be and issue with the queen herself particularly if recently mated....Keep us informed it will be interesting to see if they finaly replace her stop or she just disapears

 

[Hebeegeebee]

How many queencells?
If the queen is not that good, they could be superceding. This can happen even if the brood pattern appears good.
With a new queen the colony would not be expected to be attempting to swarm with 3 frames of brood and loads of space in the hive.

 

[mike99]

mike you will need to keep an eye, a small colony like yours should not be producing qcells....they have more than enough space in a bb and even if a slab of honey is in the way then thats easily sorted by dropping a new frame between brood and stores...ive had similar in the past and from experience the bees have a better idea whats going on than we do. At this time of year a small nuc making qcells is likely to be and issue with the queen herself particularly if recently mated....Keep us informed it will be interesting to see if they finaly replace her stop or she just disapears

Thanks Ian. As Millet seems to be having similar issues is interesting. My colony is in my garden. I can check it whenever I want but should I leave it for a few days now that I have inserted a drawn frame and fed them or should I check this afternoon for example? I am concerned that constantly checking the frames disturbs the expansion.
This beekeeping isn't as easy as it looks, isn't it?

 

[Ian123]

I would keep inspections times so they can’t cap a qcell bees being bees they do have there own agenda at times constantly going back every couple of days won’t solve any issues. You’ve broken cells down and they have space let’s just see what they do next

 

[Millet]

Thanks Ian. As Millet seems to be having similar issues is interesting. My colony is in my garden. I can check it whenever I want but should I leave it for a few days now that I have inserted a drawn frame and fed them or should I check this afternoon for example? I am concerned that constantly checking the frames disturbs the expansion.
This beekeeping isn't as easy as it looks, isn't it?

If she does not get laying well soon but they keep making Queen cells i would personally Re Queen the colony with a bought in mated Queen, she might not have been mated properly or have something wrong with her for all we know..
Also you do not really want to have a new Queen made from that colony with them being in your garden as you will end up with a F2 Queen, it is not always the case but it is 50/50 whether they become aggressive or not which is a risk not worth taking.

 

[Dogged]

What sort of bees are they please?

 

[Millet]

What sort of bees are they please?

Buckfast.. .

 

[Beefriendly]

Buckfast.. .

Well a generation or two downstream...about 25% Buckfast. Local mongrel input showing through

 

[mike99]

Well a generation or two downstream...about 25% Buckfast. Local mongrel input showing through

I will have you know that the ladies are born and bred in the County of Northumberland and now live in Whitley Bay. No mongrels live here. Look at the dogs on the Beach. They are not mongrel dogs, they are Cockapoo's, Labradoodles, Jugs, etc.

 

[Beefriendly]

I will have you know that the ladies are born and bred in the County of Northumberland and now live in Whitley Bay. No mongrels live here. Look at the dogs on the Beach. They are not mongrel dogs, they are Cockapoo's, Labradoodles, Jugs, etc.

Nice one Mike.
Perhaps best described as pedigree barstewards

 

[mike99]

If she does not get laying well soon but they keep making Queen cells i would personally Re Queen the colony with a bought in mated Queen, she might not have been mated properly or have something wrong with her for all we know..
Also you do not really want to have a new Queen made from that colony with them being in your garden as you will end up with a F2 Queen, it is not always the case but it is 50/50 whether they become aggressive or not which is a risk not worth taking.

I will leave them till next weekend and see how things are progressing. Hopefully the feed and the extra frame of drawn comb will make them more productive and settled. If I can help it, I don't want to change anything as they are a really chilled out bunch of lasses.
If I did decide to go down the route of Re Queening, is there a breeder I could go to and would it be too late to do it?