Overwintering of Drones Take II

[beeno]

Well, I give you that one Jenkins that the thread turned into a pile of nonsense as so often happens on the forum. So, let’s start again since the baying crowd is so interested in this matter.
I do believe that most people would consider Dr. Eva Crane an eminent person in the world of bees. (This is in response to RAB’s derogatory remark as to what kind of bee books I read.) In her book ‘Bees and Beekeeping. Science, Practice and World Resources.’ Section 2.62 Adult drones in the Colony; referring to the temperate zone she states “... and adult drones have occasionally overwintered”.
This seems to be a commonly held view, as also mentioned by Graham Kingham in his article ‘Drones, specialists only in the field’, in President’s Day and AGM 16 March 2013 and I quote “It is possible for a few drones to overwinter if surplus food has been stored”.
I am not of the opinion that if I have not seen it then it cannot be true, but as far as possible I would like to of course. Why don’t we all mark our drones next autumn and see if we find any survivors first warm day in March - using the Met’s definition of spring. Of course, this experiment would exclude all those who don’t open their hives until April/May, who sadly are the most vociferous in this thread.

 

[victor meldrew]

Any consolation but I have had colonies over Winter a few drones , this hasn't been the result of a failing Queen as the Queens involved have been marked and one season old! They haven't swarmed or been superseded in the proceeding Summer/Autumn.
VM


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[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well, I give you that one Jenkins that the thread turned into a pile of nonsense

Please don't misquote me - What i actually said was that it started........

Why don’t we all mark our drones next autumn and see if we find any survivors first warm day in March - using the Met’s definition of spring.

I prefer to go by my observations of the bees and the weather before fiddling around in the hive rather than by anyone's definition, or a cross on the calendar

 

[Dishmop]

Cant see thats its important anyway.....

 

[Tom Bick]

It all seems very feasible to me.

 

[Hivemaker.]

It all seems very feasible to me.

Marking all the drones.

 

[Tom Bick]

Marking all the drones.

Yes that's the way to test it

 

[victor meldrew]

A point I'd like to make is the propensity for colonies to accept drones from other colonies at will , especially if they are replete with store.
Drones probably play a major role in the spread of Varroa ?
VM


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[Erichalfbee]

So, let’s start again since the baying crowd is so interested in this matter.

Actually, I don't think they are really.

It's well known that some colonies tolerate a few drones overwintering. It's been seen by most of us. What isn't true is that these surviving drones are purposefully allowed to survive to service an early supercedure. I'm not saying you said this I just seem to remember that the issue came up in one of these drone threads.

There's not much point in droning on in my humble opinion.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A point I'd like to make

While I'm here, VM...did you watch Crufts?

 

[oliver90owner]

At this rate we will get a take III and IV.

Talk about trying to dig a deeper hole.

NOBODY has suggested some drones are sometimes retained in some overwintering colonies in the previous threads. NOBODY has or would refute that, if such a claim were made. Clearly it had not been claimed in that form.

BUT that 'healthy colonies have a complement of drones throughout the winter' is total fantasy from cloud cuckoo land.

Here is the actual quote from the supercedure thread:
"I read somewhere that a healthy hive comes through winter with a small complement of drones"

-Read it carefully. It is a claim that healthy colonies retain drones in winter. Just not true.-The vast majority of-healthy-colonies do not retain drones for the winter. To claim otherwise is completely fallacious. In fact it is likely that (otherwise healthy) colonies which may be 'in the market' for supercedure might retain drones. Not the best situation to be in, as this may well indicate a poorly queen in residence.

Making sweeping claims like the above is reprehensible, particularly after attempting to 'pull the wool' in the previous abortive attempt at justifying the rediculous claim quoted above. Another stir that was shown to be just that, a stir. Not comparing apples with apples and only quoting for a period which clearly preceded the onset of cold weather in southern USA, when-all-the remaining drones were evicted. Yes, it does say 'All'.

I think admin should step in and tell you to stop this silly railing. It is just making you a bigger laughing stock, the deeper you dig your hole. New beeks should not be exposed to such misleading claims. Moving the goalposts is no better either, as you are clearly attempting with this thread.

Btw the quote from Eva Crane does not include the word 'adult' in my copy. It then goes on to say '... normally, when the next dearth season approaches workers force drones ... finally out of the hive, ...where they ... die'. Things really do need to be taken in context.

 

[Erichalfbee]

In fact it is likely that (otherwise healthy) colonies which may be 'in the market' for supercedure might retain drones.

Ah.......I'm happy to stand corrected.

 

[jd101k2000]

Just a thought... even if a colony did retain some drones, don't they 'go off'. That is: they are no good for mating after a certain age? (Making them useless for an early supercedure.)

When talking to a nearly local II man, he said that they had to be very careful to get drones of the right age, or they were useless.

Of course (revealing my ignorance) is it possible that 'winter drones' would have a much greater shelf-life, like 'winter workers'?

 

[Itchy]

A point I'd like to make is the propensity for colonies to accept drones from other colonies at will , especially if they are replete with store.
Drones probably play a major role in the spread of Varroa ?
VM


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What stores do drones bring in?

 

[Erichalfbee]

from other colonies at will , especially if they are replete with store.

I think the replete with store refers to "other colonies" rather than drones.
At least that's how the syntax reads.

 

[REDWOOD]

All ifs and butts and the occasional may be

 

[victor meldrew]

While I'm here, VM...did you watch Crufts?

Yes I watched Crufts

She nearly won .
I wish .
VM


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[Erichalfbee]

Nearly

 

[victor meldrew]

What stores do drones bring in?

I wondered how soon the thread would descend to arguing over grammar rather sticking to the point
VM


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[REDWOOD]

I wondered how soon the thread would descend to arguing over grammar rather sticking to the point
VM


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And now it's gone to the dogs Better than drones lol

Lovely dog, I wish I had the time to have one