Opinions Please

[jenkinsbrynmair]

confirming it was free of sealed brood before applying OA but since it's a complete waste of time otherwise,

That's just your opinion - not a complete waste of time (otherwise why bother with apiguard)just not as effective. Still think you were foolish ripping the nest apart midwinter on the advice of the non beekeepers at LASI and only your opinion that that was the reason for it working 'big time' for that colony.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

That's just your opinion - not a complete waste if time (otherwise why bother with apiguard)just not as effective. Still think you were foolish ripping the nest apart midwinter on the advice of the non beekeepers at LASI and only your opinion that that was the reason for it working 'big time' for that colony.

I admit I am not like a kid waiting for Christmas at the idea of going through four now full-sized colonies and am tending toward vaporization at intervals to increase the odds of it being effective.

But we digress.

 

[Dishmop]

Had to move a colony into a nuc as too much room for colony to keep warm and it was a sunny day here so took the risk.

Fair enough but you didnt explain that to start with, therefore it could be that the bodies thrown out might be those that got chilled and died because of the move.

 

[Fatbee]

Have you considered you might have a drone laying queen in there from supersedure Q that didn't get mated? When the colony decides to shut down for winter they do sometimes rip the drone brood out of the comb and throw them out of the hive.

Why would the bees replace a laying queen through supersedure with a duff one?

It makes me chuckle how from what is more than likely a very simple and natural reason for seeing the drone pupae being chucked out we have gone through varroa, chilling and drone laying.

Think the advice to not worry until spring is the best apart from the occasional heft or oxacylic if deemed necessary

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Why would the bees replace a laying queen through supersedure with a duff one?

More to the point, what would OP be expected to do about it?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It makes me chuckle how from what is more than likely a very simple and natural reason for seeing the drone pupae being chucked out we have gone through varroa, chilling and drone laying.

Think the advice to not worry until spring is the best apart from the occasional heft or oxacylic if deemed necessary

Too much 'thinking outside the box' when they haven't yet an idea what's going on inside it

 

[masterBK]

Why would the bees replace a laying queen through supersedure with a duff one?:
Bees often replace queens in september and it is a fact that some of them don't get mated at that time of year and then the colony ends up with a duff drone layer and often not realised til spring by the beekeeper. At this time of year nowt much can be done about it apart from remove it and unite.
While it is normal to have a few adult drones in the hive at this time of year it is very unusual to have drone brood if there is a mated queen in the hive. The photo showed drone brood bodies obviously ripped out of the cells.
The simple answer of the bees simply kicking out drone brood and adults late in the season is probably correct but you should always consider all possibilities. Time will tell what the actual situation is. Hope the simple answer is correct for the beekeeper in question.

 

[midnight sun]

Don't be afraid to enter a colony if you have to. Do if you don't.

I took a lot of flak a year ago for going through a colony (on a flying day in December) confirming it was free of sealed brood before applying OA but since it's a complete waste of time otherwise, the alternative is guesswork and I reckon a lot of people guess wrong (too late). And it worked big-time for that colony.

Thanks for that TryingToLetThemBee, thought it was worth the risk.
regards Dave

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Too much 'thinking outside the box' when they haven't yet an idea what's going on inside it

Nice one!

 

[midnight sun]

Fair enough but you didnt explain that to start with, therefore it could be that the bodies thrown out might be those that got chilled and died because of the move.

Errm! It wasn't me that had bodies thrown out Dishmop, it was Heffy that had the problem.
I was the one that dropped them down to a nuc and they seem fine.
Your just testing me aren't you?

 

[beeno]

Why would the bees replace a laying queen through supersedure with a duff one?:
Bees often replace queens in september and it is a fact that some of them don't get mated at that time of year and then the colony ends up with a duff drone layer and often not realised til spring by the beekeeper. At this time of year nowt much can be done about it apart from remove it and unite.
While it is normal to have a few adult drones in the hive at this time of year it is very unusual to have drone brood if there is a mated queen in the hive. The photo showed drone brood bodies obviously ripped out of the cells.
The simple answer of the bees simply kicking out drone brood and adults late in the season is probably correct but you should always consider all possibilities. Time will tell what the actual situation is. Hope the simple answer is correct for the beekeeper in question.

Hi masterBK, Thanks for trying to create some order. I am in the category of "it is very unusual to have drone brood if there is a mated queen in the hive". This has been going on since August, she is laying ok, three frames at a time, but qc and drone brood always present with drones still flying? Hive flying with purpose and some pollen going in. It has gone from being least active to most active? I am keeping an eye on them because I have spare surplus nucs to unite with. Any gems of wisdom.

 

[Dishmop]

Errm! It wasn't me that had bodies thrown out Dishmop, it was Heffy that had the problem.
I was the one that dropped them down to a nuc and they seem fine.
Your just testing me aren't you?

My mistake......but only because you quoted a question I asked the OP.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am in the category of "it is very unusual to have drone brood if there is a mated queen in the hive". This has been going on since August,

What a load of rubbish, it would unusual not to have drone brood in the hive in August, September and October, maybe even a little in November seeing as we've had such mild weather and the fact that

Bees often replace queens in september .

, would indicate they'd hang on to drone brood until the queen was tested

and if you stop and think - the OP's bees were removing drone brood, perfectly normal if they were happy with the queen as they no longer need it, nor extra mouths to feed

 

[beeno]

Actually, my conversation was with masterBK not the opening post in this instance digression being the norm in the threads on this forum. So, the bees are testing the queen in question since August with none of my other seven having had any drone brood since early September. They really do know what they are doing, don't they? Nine degrees and sunshine and they are collecting pollen like mad, so are obviously still brooding. Shame she is not marked.

 

[Erichalfbee]

collecting pollen like mad, so are obviously still brooding.

Maybe not
Would bees collect pollen simply because it was there?
One summer a fellow beekeeper had a queen-less and brood-less colony fill almost a whole brood box with pollen.

 

[itma]

… Nine degrees and sunshine and they are collecting pollen like mad, so are obviously still brooding. …

Maybe not
Would bees collect pollen simply because it was there?
One summer a fellow beekeeper had a queen-less and brood-less colony fill almost a whole brood box with pollen.

Bees need to consume LOTS of pollen to make themselves into "winter bees".
Among the physiological changes for overwintering, the bees lay down internal stores of protein in their "fat bodies".
It is not only needed for brood (and Q) food.



Seeing pollen going in isn't a very good indicator (other than that there is pollen out there - important in itself).
However, a sudden increase in the pollen income is a pretty good indication that your virgin Q has mated and come into lay …

Erica, there is supposed to be a feedback (quite literally!) mechanism to limit pollen foraging, however, without brood and particularly nurse bees that mechanism would break down. (It'd likely be restored once the laying workers got going properly … )

 

[midnight sun]

My mistake......but only because you quoted a question I asked the OP.

Specsavers?

 

[Tommo]

Wrong post

 

[beeno]

However, a sudden increase in the pollen income is a pretty good indication that your virgin Q has mated and come into lay …

Hi itma,
This hive has laid continuously, albeit not profusely, since end Aug. together with numerous rounds of supercedure cells. Had quick peek 11th Nov. as I was concerned about the number of drones still flying from this hive and there was still a new sealed supercedure cell, young larvae and drone brood in drone cells. I still think it is the old girl laying which should be this year's queen, not the one 3 seasons with me which caused the initial supercedure back in June. If she becomes a drone layer I have spare queens. Maybe they think it is still time for a jolly, my strawberries are in flower with some large, green set fruit.

 

[Dishmop]

Specsavers?

that and a combination of being full of painkillers...