Opinion on Plastic Frames & Foundation

[Little John]

However, Michael Bush in the USA who runs lots of hives swears by it.

Which is not entirely the full picture.

Bush also runs many of his hives with top bars and many with frames but foundation-less.

LJ

 

[fincaazul]

have used MB plastic frames/ foundation for the last four seasons. Major problem is that the extrusion process in manufacturing these frames is a cheaper method which does not adequately relieve stress in finished product. Three years on and top of frames tend to distort out and downwards. Foundation part of frame also buckles badly making straight comb impossible. Tried to bring this up with their foreign representative in 2014 but all he wanted to do was sell me their plastic swarm control system. At spring convention raised this again with one of their representatives who took my e-mail and promised to get back to me. Damn good job I am not holding my breath.

 

[fincaazul]

Plastic langstroth frames in the experience of myself and a fellow beekeeper cannot be extracted sucessfully radially. The frames tend to twist and comb breaks off.

 

[REDWOOD]

Plastic...... not so fantastic

 

[mjt68]

I'm really happy with Rite Cell foundation - plastic foundation in a wooden frame. Seems really robust and doesn't twist or warp. The foundation cells are nice and deep and the bees seem to like it (draw it out well, although do sometimes build brace comb at right angles). The resulting combs are lovely and straight too.

 

[B+.]

plastic foundation in a wooden frame.

I bought a load of black Pierco deep frames a while ago. Lavae showed up really clearly against the black in the bottom of the cell.
However, I think its too easy to lose track of how long they've been in use when you have lots of them (I was concerned that this might lead to hygiene problems) so I have gone back to the traditional wooden frame and beeswax foundation this year. I will gradually cycle through and replace all my older combs.

 

[Tremyfro]

I bought a load of black Pierco deep frames a while ago. Lavae showed up really clearly against the black in the bottom of the cell.
However, I think its too easy to lose track of how long they've been in use when you have lots of them (I was concerned that this might lead to hygiene problems) so I have gone back to the traditional wooden frame and beeswax foundation this year. I will gradually cycle through and replace all my older combs.

I guess you could mark them with your queen colours...then you would know when you need to remove for cleaning. By the time blue comes round again...you know it's past time to get them out!

 

[B+.]

I guess you could mark them with your queen colours

I tried that with queen marking pen but it wears off.
I have about 500 of the black Pierco frames. I thought they were a good idea at the time. Now, I'm not so sure.
As a first step towards cycling them out, I plan to move them all into the mating apiary

 

[Vale Bees]

I tried that with queen marking pen but it wears off.
I have about 500 of the black Pierco frames. I thought they were a good idea at the time. Now, I'm not so sure.
As a first step towards cycling them out, I plan to move them all into the mating apiary

Do you mean by cycling them out....to stop using them? or for cleaning.
Steam cleaning gets the wax off and pressure hosing gets the rest. Some work involved but probably still less than making new frames up.

 

[B+.]

Do you mean by cycling them out....to stop using them? or for cleaning.
Steam cleaning gets the wax off and pressure hosing gets the rest. Some work involved but probably still less than making new frames up.

Pierco doesn't stand up to steam treatment very well. They deform.
I'm talking about gradual replacement as you would do with wood/wax for normal apiary hygiene reasons

 

[Tremyfro]

Pierco doesn't stand up to steam treatment very well. They deform.
I'm talking about gradual replacement as you would do with wood/wax for normal apiary hygiene reasons

I thought they were supposed to last forever! Is it not possible to clean them for future use?

 

[BeeJayBee]

Yes, but not by steam cleaning!

 

[Tremyfro]

Yes, but not by steam cleaning!

Ah....alternatives cleaning methods?

 

[Plenty of honey]

Plastic Dadant frames in Supers.

Ok So read all the previous comments. Here in France my full time friend uses wax foundation and comb in the brood nest But all his supers are now plastic. I was thinking OMG, but after having borrowed some of his supers this year i am actually really impressed with them.


http://http://www.icko-apiculture.com/fr/baticadre-nicot-hausse-u-c-30.html?orig=51a0c094b5e39&pdt=CG121&gclid=CNjoxYD1_scCFYu6GwoduRQNtA

The most interesting thing about their numerous advantages is i find that their so light. Combine this with a pine super body and you have a very light super to move around. Imagine the weight difference when working on your own which so many are when moving 400 supers in a week.
They also seem much stronger , but i will get back to you on this and he's only in his second full year of changing over but already when we harvested this year, four of my old wooden supers broke, but none of the plastic did.

Ok, so to get them drawn up you can plastic dip them, but if you do happen to have a really strong spring flow they will build it out themselves. This i saw this spring and they will draw out as long as you introduce them about 5 days after your main hatching starts, i.e. prior to new born bees becoming nurse bees, over here i am told that they draw a lot of comb when they are between 5 days and two weeks old, how true this is, someone can probably correct me?

Cleaning is oh so easy. If you get wax moth or pollen in the frames, you can simply scrape out the wax etc with a standard wallpaper scraper, then pressure wash off the residue with a pressure washer. This dosent have to be hot either!!

So If they last longer, can be easily cleaned, are stronger and lighter and dont need to be waxed or re wires, whats not to like about them.

Oh, one thing i forgot to mention. When you put them on your bees first time you must space them 10 per super. The following flow after one use, the spacing can be changed to 8 per super. that way you get a lot more honey on less frames. again another small labour saving reason, that all helps.

 

[B+.]

whats not to like about them.

1. You put them in the hive and forget about them. After a while, you forget how long they've been in there as they are not rotated out of service the way wood/wax would be. This is an invitation to pathogen build-up.
2. If you get foulbrood and the bee inspector says you have to burn them, how do you burn plastic? Its carcinogenic. This leads to the expense of having them irradiated. Is that facility available near you?

 

[Plenty of honey]

1. You put them in the hive and forget about them. After a while, you forget how long they've been in there as they are not rotated out of service the way wood/wax would be. This is an invitation to pathogen build-up.
2. If you get foulbrood and the bee inspector says you have to burn them, how do you burn plastic? Its carcinogenic. This leads to the expense of having them irradiated. Is that facility available near you?

Thats a good point B+, yes i agree and no their isn't as Far as i know a place near here that could irradiate. However, their only used for supers, and we only very rarely get AFB in the brood nest initially and i can't argue that it wouldn't go in to the super if it was put on a diseased colony, but i would hope the weaker or diseased colonie would have been spotted prior to putting on honey supers. But overall i still think that these are cheaper in the long run in terms of labour, time spent maintaining them and durability.
Time will tell but from what i have observed so far, it looks a very practical option.
Like i said i wouldn't disagree with your point!!

 

[B+.]

Time will tell but from what i have observed so far, it looks a very practical option.

I agree: the labour side of the argument is very seductive. However, if you build a process that has inherent risks, you're sure to be caught out sooner or later