One more boring swarm prevention question

[ShinySideUp]

I know that experience beekeepers must be bored out of their minds with inane questions about swarm prevention but I promise that it will be my last on this matter.

All the swarm methods I have read about involve moving this hive there, that one here, some of that over there and back again, special boards et al. I find them all very confusing and I don't have much room to start faffing about with too many extra hives so I wondered what to do until I found this:

http://dave-cushman.net/bee/swarmconnuc.html

It sounds so straightforward that I think that is the one I might adopt when I detect QC's at some point as it involves the simple use of a nuc box and nothing else.

Opinions on it? Is it good for beginners?

 

[Bosleeu]

It has worked the few times I have done it. I use 4 or 5 frames rather than 3 if the colony is very strong.

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[ShinySideUp]

How far from the parent hive should the nuc be, over 3 feet?

 

[Curley]

Over 6 feet . The point about adding young bees is very important if you are keeping it in the same apiary. This is because young ones that wont fly straight back to the parent colony and leave the queen and the brood you have moved

 

[Levitt53]

Yes sunnysideup I agree it's confusing. I'm on my second year and haven't done a split yet but I think you have to just pick one method and stick with it. I went to a talk about using a snelgrove board and it made complete sense to me so I'm going to do that as and when necessary.

 

[enrico]

I have 35 years under my belt and it still isn't easy. I still lose swarms, I still panic knowing that I have not got enough kit to hand when I see the first queen cells. Remember that swarming is the bees way of reproducing, think how much time and effort we spend trying to reproduce or at least go through the motions, that is what they are trying to do. Killing off the urge is difficult so trickery is our main tool. The tricks you use depend on if you are trying to keep a strong hive or increasing your numbers etc. Etc. Try a few methods, see which work for you, always be prepared with the right kit and keep your fingers crossed cos they will still swarm despit all your best efforts. Those that deny they have swarms have out apiaries, they just never see them. Fifteen minutes and it's all over. Once again I refer to our reproduction! Fifteen minutes? He he!
Good luck
E

 

[mjt68]

All the swarm methods I have read about involve moving this hive there, that one here, some of that over there and back again, special boards et al. I find them all very confusing and I don't have much room to start faffing about with too many extra hives so I wondered what to do until I found this:

Really really try and get your head around each of them (draw diagrams, build model, whatever). Understanding beekeeping theory in this way will help you be a better beek, even if you have no intention of ever using all the methods.

In terms of taking a nuc I've used it successfully but it knocks the colony back and you still need some spare kit and space. On the plus side it gives you a nuc to solve problems with later on.

"There is no problem in beekeeping that can't be solved, by either putting something into, or, taking something out of a Nuc" Wedmore

 

[Eyeman]

In terms of taking a nuc I've used it successfully but it knocks the colony back and you still need some spare kit and space. On the plus side it gives you a nuc to solve problems with later on.

Removing the queen in a nuc allows you to requeen the colony after a couple rounds of queen cell building has got them over the 'swarm fever'. The 2 week brood break plus the 9 days before the new queen's brood is capped gives you a 23 day window for most of the original brood to have emerged. There should be little if any capped brood round so a good opportunity for treating varroa.

 

[drex]

Yes, despite extensive AS measures, still had a swarm in bait hive yesterday. I was told by my old teacher to stick with one technique for a year or two, until you get used to it all. He taught me the Pagden. I now use many different techniques depending on situation. I totally agree that the key is not to panic, and think it through before doing anything, and having the kit ready

 

[pargyle]

It's a method and most of the time it will work .. but ...you are still putting a laying queen into a small box and you either have to be prepared to move the colony fairly soon to a full size hive or be prepared to combine the split back into the original hive - once you have a proven laying queen .. the convention is then to depatch or give away the old queen in favour of the new one ... which, theoretically, provides for less chance of them swarming early next season ... unfortunately, the bees don't read the right books so don't bank on it !

Really you need one spare full hive per colony to be comfortable and then a couple of nucs in reserve, even if you just have them in storage and they are rough and ready ones... I don't know a beekeeper who has never run out of kit at the worst moment possible !! Why do you think kit is so much more expensive and less of it available once the season gets underway ...

Speaking of which, I'm now down to 5 remaining supers so this bit of rain this week is a bit of a relief ... more expense and explanations why there will be another big box arriving ...Hi ho ...

 

[maddydog]

A new deep of foundation which goes where the original hive was, a couple of shallows, then a crown board with a slot in it for an entrance and finally the original deep.
Queen goes in the new foundation box with the flyers and you reduce the original box down to a QC. Vertical AS, simplest way with the minimum amount of kit.

 

[user 6228]

try this http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=476522&postcount=68

 

[ShinySideUp]

So many alternatives. At the moment I have two new colonies and I'm hoping that neither will swarm in this their first year out of a nuc box.

All swarms depend on the old queen leaving the hive, what would happen if one just removed the queen?

 

[Gaz1]

what's your brood box like at the moment? How many frames drawn out? Guessing you got a 5 frame nuc, as long as you give them enough space you may be alright. I got mine last may and they ended the season with 1 super on top really just for added space they didn't have time to draw it all out.

 

[ShinySideUp]

what's your brood box like at the moment? How many frames drawn out? Guessing you got a 5 frame nuc, as long as you give them enough space you may be alright. I got mine last may and they ended the season with 1 super on top really just for added space they didn't have time to draw it all out.

The first colony I got at the end of April was rammed and in a six frame nuc. They went into a 14 x 12 brrod box and last week there was still empty space on the two outer frames but I put a super on anyway as they were so populous. The second colony (I moved on the 13th) is much smaller, but still on a six frame nuc and they too have gone into a 14 x 12 but no way do they need a super on yet. Neither colony have space problems.

 

[colinc]

I had a nuc in April that drew 7-8 frames last year and swarmed in June due to me relying on qc removal slowing them down, it didn't.
They also threw a cast a short while later.
I caught both had 3 colonies from 1 and harvested a super at the end of the year.

It all depends on how well your queen lays.


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[Gaz1]

So many alternatives. At the moment I have two new colonies and I'm hoping that neither will swarm in this their first year out of a nuc box.

Move them outer frames in and they will draw them out quick enough

Your nucs will probably of been young queens so congestion would be the most likely cause in my mind for swarm tigger, but they got the space so I'd think you be all good! Least you will have a year to get your head around which one you want to do when the time comes! (You also have a year to change your mind)

Then again once the swarming season is done you get to think about autumn season and winter prep!

 

[abm]

Thanks Derek M... your method seems straight forward and very practicable.

This is my second year now so this year is time to take action.

 

[le7289a]

I have had a few times successfully split and I usually do it to prevent a swarm and keep the new Hive closed up for three days before I let them forage for food

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[Quis Custodiet]

I have had a few times successfully split and I usually do it to prevent a swarm and keep the new Hive closed up for three days before I let them forage for food

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You have the right idea. If all swarms and splits were confined without food for three days in a cool dark place, there would be less foul brood and probably no absconding. But as always it is for the individual to decide on what to do.