One hive on the brink?

[MandF]

Hi all,

Went down to check my bees just now, primarily to see if hive1 needed any more fondant - this hive has been noticibly lighter than the other hive and therefore I have been monitoring weight and adding fondant.

The other hive has remained heavy, and when I treated for oxalic a few weeks back there were 9 seams of bees or thereabouts. This hive has been noticibly quieter on warmer days - very little coming and going. Last week when I checked hive 1 I put my ear to brood box and tapped it, and got a roar. So all fine I thought.

Anyhow, I thought I would check the floor today and help clear out any dead bees with a stick. There were lots, but it wasnt this which overly concerned me, it was the lack of any interest from within - I expected a few guards to come out to investigate.

So, I decided to take the roof off and have a look. there are about 4 seams of bees (hive1 still has about 8 I think), to one end of the box.

I decided to take out one of the brood frames just to check on stores, and I found lots of dead half in/out bees, the stores were mouldy on some patches of frames. It was similar across pretty much all the brood box. The outermost frames on the other side were a bit mouldy in spots, but the middle was full of (crystallised) stores which looked ok.

I think what has happened is they moved from the middle towards one edge, and separated themselves from their food and have started to starve. I looked through all the frames with bees, found the queen, found a small patch of sealed brood (about 50 bees if I remember), some larvae and some eggs.

I hope I have therefore caught it in time. I rearranged the frames so they now have full-ish frames of stores either side of the cluster, and put some fondant on the top in and around them.

I am now wondering what to do next. The hive is heavy, but it has 2 supers at the bottom (one stores, one is the half brood from last season which I suspect is full of stores). So I think they have food below them but arent moving down.

My instinct is to;

1. replace all the brood frames with dead bees and mould, with foundation (I dont have drawn brood frames).
2. move the frames with the cluster and the stores, and the foundation frames into a new brood body.
3. rearrange these back to brood on bottom, then the old half brood (assuming the stores in these arent also mouldy)? And just take off the honey super which was on the bottom. In other words, what we would have done a bit later in the season anyway.
4. whilst I am at it, put them on a new stand and new floor so I can clean/steralise the old ones.

I intend to do that this weekend (I need to build the stand and floor).

Does that sound ok?

I am worried about them starving, but I am also worried about them having mouldy stores around them.

I do also have a poly nuc, if the situation is more urgent than I think, which I can move the cluster/brood frames to and feed fondant.

Advice?

 

[Meg]

Think I would move your bees and brood and best brood frames (not all clogged up, but giving the queen somewhere to lay) into the poly nuc and feed fondant. That way no worries about mouldy frames or extra area to heat if you replaced these with foundation. A quicker operation to do than re-arranging everything and keeping the hive open. You can investigate the remaining frames and supers at your leisure.

Lastly, you mentioned some crystalised stores which would be hard work for the bees to process. If they were unable to get out for water needed to process it when it was chilly, this may well have led to the starvation of some of your bees.

In another month or two I would check them for nosema too.

Meg

 

[Hivemaker.]

Test for nosema,and is this the colony that had nine frames af bees,and dropped 100 mites 24 hours after treating with oxalic,now down to four frames of bees,in around three weeks from oxalic.

 

[MandF]

I think you're right. I didnt think of the heating issue if I rearranged, even though I have insulation.

Assuming the stores in the half brood/super are mouldy, is there any way to salvage those for re-use?

 

[MandF]

Test for nosema,and is this the colony that had nine frames af bees,and dropped 100 mites 24 hours after treating with oxalic,now down to four frames of bees,in around three weeks from oxalic.

It is the hive which was smaller when I treated, yes.

I did test for nosema at the end of the season, both hives were clear.

 

[oliver90owner]

Does that sound ok?

So, I decided to take the roof

I decided to take out one of the brood frames

You have a tiny colony like that and also a polynuc? No real contest, surely? If I were considering looking at a potentially small colony needing remedial treatment, they would have been in the nuc already.

None of this opening them twice, lark. That just reduces their chances further.

Surely the best thing to have done was to think things through, before jumping in? Please, let this be a lesson not to forget. And something for all other new beeks reading this to remember.

They are not that bad if she is still laying? They may not have enough numbers to increase strongly and might well dwindle, but I would not expect her to still be laying if they were starving.

 

[MandF]

Hi Rab,

I didnt necessarily think there was an issue with the hive, so thought I'd have a quick look whilst the weather was ok to make sure.

The first "brood frame" I took out was away from the cluster, I wanted to see if there was food on it in case they were isolated. It was only when I saw dead brood in there that I realised how serious it was.

But anyhow, they will be in a nuc by this eve.

I was not expecting all the mouldy black frames and dead bees, and when I saw that feared the worse hence looking through

 

[Chris58]

Sorry to hear the new MandF, we too are first year beeks, in France. I am suprised at the mention of mould as I have never heard of this. What causes the mould?

 

[MandF]

Thanks - not sure but I think its the pollen, and possibly caused by damp (rain getting between boxes)?

They are rehoused in a nice new polynuc. There were some decent stores in the lower super, I think the problem here was because the weather has been fairly mild they have been working the stores in the usual way - outside in. When we had the cold snap they then came up to the top and to one side, of the brood box where I think some brood got chilled, and the pollen on the "other" side went mouldy.

Not really sure to be honest.

Unfortunately, given the same circumstances as this season, I would do the same again. Next time I will be suspicious of one hive remaining heavy and if necessary go in to rearrange stores whenever the weather is good enough.

I have also got a sample of bees to test for nosema, which are now in the freezer, and which I can hopefully check under the microscope tomorrow.

 

[drstitson]

transfer to poly nuc pronto.

of if one not available (and why not given the recent online sale by a certain supplier?) dummy down the brood box with pieces of kingspan behind dummy boards to leave a nuc sized setup (4-6 frames).

 

[Hivemaker.]

transfer to poly nuc pronto.

DrS.....They are rehoused in a nice new polynuc, post 9 above.

 

[mbc]

If it is the new ****** poly nuc I'd be tempted to close off the omf ( maybe with a sheet of polythene pinned over) to conserve more heat.

 

[MandF]

It is one of theirs.

I could only fit 5 frames with my spacers, so I think it should be full enough to heat ok (and I prewarmed it with a hairdryer before taking it out to them).

Do others think I should close off the mesh floor?

 

[Nic Rhodes]

would do no harm and potentially some good, I have a piece of correx / corriflute I use for this IF necessary. They need to keep warm atm.