No maintenance if I don't want any honey?

[Andy Duff]

I don't think this was done by bee traders http://www.mylovedone.com/image/solstice/win10/SammataroandArlinghaus.html

 

[Chris Luck]

My issue Andy is with statements like ""when your left alone bees spread their nasty diseases to a proper beekeepers hives you are costing him/her time and money."" implying that unmanaged or feral colonies are a health hazard which is probably the least likely cause of serious disease transmission and additionally that there is something called a proper bee keeper.

Both varroa and AFB are / have been transmitted by bee keepers, not by bees, how otherwise have they ended up on islands such as the UK?

Chris

 

[busybee53]

Andy Duff; 40+ years beekeeping and never been stung? Really? Boy am I impressed now. Good bees or good beesuit?

 

[Andy Duff]

My issue Andy is with statements like ""when your left alone bees spread their nasty diseases to a proper beekeepers hives you are costing him/her time and money."" implying that unmanaged or feral colonies are a health hazard which is probably the least likely cause of serious disease transmission and additionally that there is something called a proper bee keeper.

Both varroa and AFB are / have been transmitted by bee keepers, not by bees, how otherwise have they ended up on islands such as the UK?

Chris

So are you saying that the beekeepers are contaminated and spreading the disease from hive to hive, and contaminated bees do not spread disease to other bees.
This is very stimulating stuff. The beekeeper is the vector not the bee. My! us proper beekeepers have been busy sticking our contaminated parts into other peoples hives. Look at the map.

Isolated beekeepers that had never bought in bees, found their bees with varroa? In all probabillity I would say errrr no.

Bees are the vector

 

[busybee53]

Agree beekeepers help spread disease. But this year I think we did a good job for the bees.

Just saved mine from starvation in June. Several people have told me they had hardly any bees in their gardens this year. They are far away from my bees and so it looks like other bees did actually starve.

 

[Andy Duff]

Andy Duff; 40+ years beekeeping and never been stung? Really? Boy am I impressed now. Good bees or good beesuit?

My grandfather taught me that bees get bored of bouncing off beekeepers (pinging) who don't blow or swat them away, worked so far!
or is it my BO

 

[ratcatcher]

leave alone beekeeping is not beekeeping. You may get lucky and everything is fine for a couple of years, but when your left alone bees spread their nasty diseases to a proper beekeepers hives you are costing him/her time and money.

so why did'nt bees become extinct long before humans started pinching their honey, I'm not trying to knock your knowledge of bees, heck I'm a mere newbie who knows nothing, but that type of answer above makes my blood boil to be honest, as most diseases/viruses/extinctions etc, have come about because we interfered with nature,
just because you or someone else keeps bees for honey production I presume, that's what your implying gives you the right to be a "proper beekeeper" compared to someone that is more in wanting bees to live as near natural life, and have less honey for us to harvest, makes them less of a beekeeper than you

 

[Andy Duff]

so why did'nt bees become extinct long before humans started pinching their honey, I'm not trying to knock your knowledge of bees, heck I'm a mere newbie who knows nothing, but that type of answer above makes my blood boil to be honest, as most diseases/viruses/extinctions etc, have come about because we interfered with nature,
just because you or someone else keeps bees for honey production I presume, that's what your implying gives you the right to be a "proper beekeeper" compared to someone that is more in wanting bees to live as near natural life, and have less honey for us to harvest, makes them less of a beekeeper than you

I never said I was A proper beekeeper, the way I look after my bees is the way I was taught. Its like being a farmer, a good farmer ( livestock) sees and interacts with the animals he cares for every day. I see our bees every day, stood at the back of the hives and I observe them and they learn that I am just nothing to react to or in winter a food source (fondant).

It's quite simple really. The more time you spend with your bees, the more they recognise that you are no threat and accept you. It's evolution.

What I do works for me and our bees.

Repeating once again, there is more to beekeeping than keeping bees in a box

 

[farbee]

My issue Andy is with statements like ""when your left alone bees spread their nasty diseases to a proper beekeepers hives you are costing him/her time and money."" implying that unmanaged or feral colonies are a health hazard which is probably the least likely cause of serious disease transmission and additionally that there is something called a proper bee keeper.

Both varroa and AFB are / have been transmitted by bee keepers, not by bees, how otherwise have they ended up on islands such as the UK?

I not an expert but my regional bee inspector certainly believes that if disease does get into a colony that is well managed and inspected it can spread disease to other bee colonies.
I guess I would take his word for it as he see many many colonies in one particular area and also see how disease cases arrise.

 

[Chris Luck]

So you didn't say that you are a "proper bee keeper" Andy?

My! us proper beekeepers have been busy sticking our contaminated parts into other peoples hives. Look at the map.

The word "US" usually includes the person using the word I think, I checked because my English may be rusty.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/us

I also find such attitudes arrogant to say the least, no one has the right to say what is and what isn't a "proper bee keeper" but it once again shows the OP what they could be up against in the UK from those that would regiment everyone into a one size fits all. Andy has his methods and that is right and proper and others may agree with those methods BUT that doesn't make it the only way, keeping bees can simply be having bees in a box if that is what a given individual decides is right for them.

The spread of varroa and AFB have to be linked to bee keepers. Neither would have leapt the sea barriers to arrive on islands by any other method and both have coincided with the increasing movements of honey bees by humans.
Earlier this year I had a visit from a keeper from Bermuda where varroa has now arrived.

Oh, and way back when I was a lad, most hives and honey bees were kept in gardens in the UK in my experience.

Chris

 

[mbc]

ITLD quoute lifted from another thread:
"Honey in the tank at year end is the ultimate measure of both bee and beekeeper welfare."

 

[aberreef]

If I just wanted a hive to help the countryside rather than to collect honey - can I buy a simple, small hive, hang it from a tree (perhaps) at the bottom of the garden and (more or less) leave it to its own devices?

I wouldn't mind something that's low/no commitment initially - mainly leaving the bees to get on with it - and maybe embrace beekeeping properly in a couple of years time.

To what extent is this do-able and to what extent is it a rubbish idea?

Unless you are going to get into beekeeping and give the hive the hour or so per week it will take to do inspections, treatment, swarm control (through the warmeer months) then I'd stick to the advice already given and get Bumble bee boxes; bumbles polinate a wider variety of flowers than honey bees so better for the environment

My hives are at the bottom of a 3 acre field and nowhere near any houses. Having had a few problems over the past 3 years where a hive has become agressive for one reason or another, I wouldn't consider keeping bees in my back garden (modern housing estate with close neighbours) let alone leaving the to their own devices.

Maybe plant a few insect friendly trees/shrubs instead?

 

[aberreef]

Forgot to add that if you do decide to get bees, the small amount of time taken to look after them is more than compensated for by the delicious honey they'll produce for you

 

[Chris Luck]

by mbc. ITLD quoute lifted from another thread:
"Honey in the tank at year end is the ultimate measure of both bee and beekeeper welfare."

It's a point of view from a honey / bee farmer, perfectly valid from that perspective but that's all.

Chris

 

[itma]

...
Idiot comment coming up - It strikes me as odd that bees definitely need lots of management - surely they must have existed in the wild at some point?
...

Rabbits have existed in the wild.
Could you, would you, keep rabbits without any 'management' at all?

My simpleminded question -- what livestock would you contemplate keeping in your garden without any 'management'?

 

[Chris Luck]

My simpleminded question -- what livestock would you contemplate keeping in your garden without any 'management'?

Honey bees aren't exactly livestock in the general sense of the word, not mammals or fowl, not covered by any legislation or minimum conditions laws, just wild insects that some humans also keep in a variety of different boxes or cavities, (some actively keep them in hollow trees). They won't eat your veg or dig holes and if they are the same as the bees that Andy has they won't even occasionally sting, how cool is that?

Chris

 

[Brosville]

There is also the elephant in the room of it being a hobby for many, the sheer enjoyment many seem to gain from faffing about with their bees, and attempting to exert control over them - the very thought of "hands off" beekeeping fills them with dread, they enjoy the rituals of "the craft", from the donning of the kinky gear, the frisson of the danger of anaphylaxis - to telling the bees their home is on fire to subjugate them into submission, and cheerfully killing drone broad and attempting to thwart swarming in a belief that they know better than the bees..... Without their regular "fix" of faffing, they'd be seeking another hobby to fill their time, so any suggestion of the possibility that bees can survive healthily without their intervention fills them with horror.
There is no doubt that feral colonies can and do survive, and that loads of beekeepers are now using far more "hands off" management techniques, and the bees are thriving, but as it doesn't concur with the gospel according to the BBKA they shall be cast into the outer darkness, reviled and belittled for their "heresy"

 

[BeeJayBee]

no one has the right to say what is and what isn't a "proper bee keeper"

Some would suggest that anybody with 2 hives or fewer cannot ever be a 'proper bee keeper'.

 

[mbc]

It's a point of view from a honey / bee farmer, perfectly valid from that perspective but that's all.

Chris

From a biology point of view it could be argued that the more honey collected then the more pollination achieved.
We also have evidence that empty comb encourages bees to collect more honey so all in all, if you are interested in benefiting the wider environment then its difficult to argue against "honey in the tank" as possibly the most factual indicator of achieving that.

 

[Brosville]

Cobblers! You cannot necessarily equate health of the bees with "production" alone - in my view it is of far more benefit to the general environment to keep healthy bees in a sustainable way, rather than to go all out for "production at all costs", especially if that means enormous "inputs" (hives, sugar, "icides", labour etc), many of which only make sense due to "cheap" fossil fuels.

To my mind the most sustainable way would be something along the lines of the Perone hive - made from reclaimed wood, no inspections or manipulations, no sugar or chemical inputs, apparently good honey yields and healthy bees.