newbie's wintering question

[drstitson]

finman

what size are your brood boxes? since most UK beeks will be on nationals a single brood chamber can only just hold enough stores for winter if completely full. That is why many will be keeping their brood plus super format (super above or below brood) as that gives another 20-25 lb of stores. Brood and a half format measures only 375mm tall which isn't much more than a dadant at 310mm. remember UK winters are (normally) mild - although this year may be bad again according to forecasters and looking at the plentiful hedgerow harvest!

 

[Finman]

what size are your brood boxes? sest!

i have langstroth but that has nothing to do with wintering.
50 years ago langstroth was rare. A proper size space for each cluster is important.

 

[drstitson]

"A proper size space for each cluster is important."

what do you mean by this exactly - total internal volume of hive not being too great relative to the volume of the cluster OR amount of empty comb (free for bees to sit in the cells) not used for stores (whilst maintaining adequate stores of course!).

 

[Polyanwood]

What about this for a rule of thumb to decide whether you have enough space to overwinter....

Look at the size of the brood nest... the Winter cluster will be about this size. So you need enough stores for that volume of bees. In London my rule of thumb is that if I have 4 times that volume of stores in the brood box, that is enough.

I think any extra room is counter productive. My bees do better on single brood over Winter. I don't think giving them a super 'just in case' they are hungry is sensible. It is better to check the bees regularly over Winter and especially in Spring so that you can get them into the smallest appropriate volume you can.

Not scientific...just my humble opinion.

 

[drstitson]

polyanwood

"Look at the size of the brood nest"

At what point do you assess this - just before closing up for winter (ie nov 5 th or thereabouts)??? obviously at present there is less brood then at peak but still fairly decent sized area - isn't this yet to shrink and be partially replaced by stores.

for example, i have 4 frames of brood as of last night with this being the biggest:

 

[drstitson]

"It is better to check the bees regularly over Winter and especially in Spring"

so rather than giving them a full super is it advisable to store the capped super frames and substitute them sequentially for one or more empty brood frames when needed?? (on warm day of course)

 

[rwestoll]

If you are worried about creating a brood and a half situation, this can be avoided by moving the super back on top in the early spring and in the unlikely event that there is brood in the super put in the queen excluder . The bees will happily rear any brood above the QEx and with luck the weather by that time will have warmed up somewhat, so having space above the cluster will not be detrimental.

However, by this time the bees will normally have cleared the super of stores and it can be removed until such time that it needs to go back on.