New queen failure

[ShinySideUp]

I went through my hive last week and took down all the queen cells (more about this in a mo) and introduced a new, mated queen to try to speed things up and reduce my hives' aggression. Today, seven days later I have gone through the hive and there is no trace of the queen and there are no eggs -- there is however, a massive sealed queen cell that I must have missed last week.

Could this QC be the reason the new queen has (presumably) been killed?

There are definitely no more queen cells so I'll have to wait now and hope she hatches and mates ok.

Also, despite still having no queen (yet) the bees are the calmest I have ever seen them, all aggression has gone; quite the lambs really (unlike my other hive who have always hated me doing inspections).

 

[sherwood]

How did you introduce the queen?

 

[JWF]

She could have swarmed, as there was a sealed QC in the colony.

 

[enrico]

It happens. I bought three queens in earlier this year for three hives. One was killed within 24 hours of being released from the cage by the bees, another has since gone missing and was never really up to scratch. The third one is slow to get going but already they are trying to replace her.
I am not having a good year!
E

 

[Beefriendly]

but already they are trying to replace her.
I am not having a good year!
E

Enrico, for what it's worth this often happens with bees, they will try to replace the new queen introduced by raising further queen cells. I've found just keep knocking them down until she is surround by her own offspring works well. Often there is nothing wrong with the new queen but the original bees have only partially/reluctantly accepted her.

 

[Bakerbee]

Ive just requeened my two hives mostly due to agression but they were both hoplessly q- by the time the 2 queens arrived. Im very confident there were no queens or virgins and went through the smaller hive 4 times with two pairs of eyes no queens. Introduction went well on both hives i used a push in cage and when it was time to release each watched them for good 5 minutes to make sure of acceptance. All good i thought. Checked today (1 week later) and big hive queen spotted and bias. Smaller hive eggs spotted but couldnt find queen. Went about cleaning up frames as its very warm today and what do you know? Spotted a big fat queen but not marked. Both new queens were marked. Is this the same queen? Im sure i didnt miss a virgin. Can the marks wear off or fall off. Perplexed to say the least as i dont want my old aggressive queens genetics. Thoughts most welcome.

 

[Bakerbee]

Also have been on my hands n knees looking for evidence around hive of dead marked queen and theres none.

 

[Beefriendly]

Can the marks wear off or fall off. Perplexed to say the least as i dont want my old aggressive queens genetics. Thoughts most welcome.

Some breeders label their queens with coloured discs which can fall off.
An alternative is your unmarked queen has bumped your new one off.
It happens.
If the hive is calm...keep fingers crossed it was disc labelled.

 

[Bakerbee]

Thanks beefriendly thats what i had thought. If they had raised one themselves shes a beauty, nice and fat and laying like the clappers. Fingers crossed.

 

[enrico]

I always preach patience, even when I thought I had three hoplessly queenless hives, when I went to put a queen in one all the signs shouted that they had a queen in there so I made a nuc with one of the new queens instead, that was the one they killed. Luckily my gut reaction was right and one of my old stock is now laying and is far stronger than the hives with the two bought queens.
Thanks for the advice beefriendly, never having bought queens in before this has been a learning experience for me. Hopefully the new one will kick into gear soon!
E

 

[Beefriendly]

Hopefully the new one will kick into gear soon!
E

Depends on her journey Enrico. Postal queens can take some time to get up to speed....most do...some don't.

 

[Hivemaker.]

If they had raised one themselves shes a beauty, nice and fat and laying like the clappers.

The queen was in the hive already and killed the queen you tried to introduce, the paint did not come off.
I did predict this would happen.

 

[Dadnlad]

Always pop a frame of eggs in, only delays things for a few days

Unless you know exactly what is going on in a hive and are 100% confident it's Q- ......probably best to pop a frame of eggs in just to be sure

 

[Bakerbee]

Dadnlad i had no frames of eggs as stated they were hopelessly queenless.

Hivemaker, yes you did foresee this, i shall learn from this experience. My ponderings now are do i allow this unmarked queen to carry on as she has the same aggressive genetics as my old one or try to requeen again. I just want calm bees more than anything else.

 

[Millet]

I went through my hive last week and took down all the queen cells (more about this in a mo) and introduced a new, mated queen to try to speed things up and reduce my hives' aggression. Today, seven days later I have gone through the hive and there is no trace of the queen and there are no eggs -- there is however, a massive sealed queen cell that I must have missed last week.

Could this QC be the reason the new queen has (presumably) been killed?

There are definitely no more queen cells so I'll have to wait now and hope she hatches and mates ok.

Also, despite still having no queen (yet) the bees are the calmest I have ever seen them, all aggression has gone; quite the lambs really (unlike my other hive who have always hated me doing inspections).

If you missed a massive sealed Queen cell you may well have missed a sneaky hidden one among drone brood and you may have had a hard to spot Virgin Queen running around in the hive when you introduced the mated Queen.

 

[ShinySideUp]

If you missed a massive sealed Queen cell you may well have missed a sneaky hidden one among drone brood and you may have had a hard to spot Virgin Queen running around in the hive when you introduced the mated Queen.

Really, these bees do not make life easy, I think I'll have to give them a good talking to. The are...I own you, you will do as I say; please.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

It happens. I bought three queens in earlier this year for three hives. One was killed within 24 hours of being released from the cage by the bees, another has since gone missing and was never really up to scratch. The third one is slow to get going but already they are trying to replace her.
I am not having a good year!
E

So sorry for this Enrico - especially after the chasing around you did for the queens in the first place. I really hope things improve for you. If I venture into the Levels again I'll give you a shout, it would be good to meet you.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

it is frustrating

we tried two queens bought online

hive became hopelessly queen less

we were very surprised they killed the first and then the second

we ended up shaking them out a few hundred yards away, removing the nuc they'd come from and letting them 'negotiate' their entrance into neighbouring hive...i reduced entrance slightly as you do in robbing to give sentries a good chance to prevent anything getting in that may have had the wrong attitude

 

[Beefriendly]

it is frustrating

we tried two queens bought online

hive became hopelessly queen less

we were very surprised they killed the first and then the second

There are lots of wrinkles to introducing new queens. How did you do yours?
I find I get a very high success rate introducing to queenless nuc's made up from colonies in the same apiary the day before. It allows most of the flyers to return home meaning the predominant population is now nurse bees that are more inclined to accept a new queen. I usually leave the queen + Attendants in their cage wedged between 2 frames for at least 2- 3 days before releasing her. Gives time for queen to recover from postal trip and bees to accept different queen "smell".
If it's an already laying queen of my own I usually just run her in as she needs no recovery time and bees are usually happy to accept a queen that immediately starts laying.
However, the worst bees for accepting a new queen are local mongrels (or at least the ones in my area). I've had all sorts of issues with them and find making them queenless and air freshener or newspaper unite to queen-right colony is sometimes the only way they will accept a different type of queen.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

There are lots of wrinkles to introducing new queens. How did you do yours?
I find I get a very high success rate introducing to queenless nuc's made up from colonies in the same apiary the day before. It allows most of the flyers to return home meaning the predominant population is now nurse bees that are more inclined to accept a new queen. I usually leave the queen + Attendants in their cage wedged between 2 frames for at least 2- 3 days before releasing her. Gives time for queen to recover from postal trip and bees to accept different queen "smell".
If it's an already laying queen of my own I usually just run her in as she needs no recovery time and bees are usually happy to accept a queen that immediately starts laying.
However, the worst bees for accepting a new queen are local mongrels (or at least the ones in my area). I've had all sorts of issues with them and find making them queenless and air freshener or newspaper unite to queen-right colony is sometimes the only way they will accept a different type of queen.

it was a nuc of 3-4 frames of brood from a local friend

left for 2-3 days...q cells removed...

Then added with attendants and cap removed 24 hours after (wedged between frames of brood)

Found dead outside the next day

Bought another, removed further q cells – no eggs/larvae left now

Added without attendants and sprayed with sugar water…cap removed 24 hours later…left untouched for 7-10 days

No queen found, q cells and signs of laying worker i.e. multiple eggs in cells, drone from worker brood and new q cells made etc