New Beekeeper

[JohnSB]

Hi all,

I am new to beekeeping, started proper in May this year. I first decided to start beekeeping about three years ago, but it's taken me a while to get myself organised . I am learning fast, and enjoying this hobby an awful lot. Although I have been reading here for a couple of months now I haven't actually posted, so I thought I would say hi and join in a bit more.

In this last week my hive (I have just the one) has started to get going, with nectar flowing in and the bees really out in force. I can see some honey being harvested this year if this carries on, which would be great news.

I have started a blog where I am posting photos and videos, and detailing my journey as a new beekeeper. This last week I moved some of my brood around in an effort to expand the brood nest a bit. This has had the disired effect, however I suspect what I did was higher risk than would normally be deemed 'good'. If anyone has a moment to take a look at what I did I would be greatful for any feedback (especially about the non-brood frame inserted in the edge of the brood nest). Links to own websites not allowed

John

 

[Poly Hive]

Spreading the brood some advice.

I do this a lot and you are right in thinking you have been taking risks.

I was taught to use the +1 system many years ago by a Bee Farmer, a very successful one I ad firmly.

Imagine all your brood frames are at one side and there are five of them. all you have to offer them is foundation. There is no super on at this time.

Insert a foundation between the hive wall and the first brood frame. Obviously you now have foundation on both sides of the brood nest. A week later you should if the weather has been kind have at least five frames of brood plus two half frames, at this point I would turn those frames so the non started side is next to the brood nest, and more controversially insert a frame in the middle. The next week you should have 8 frames of brood. again I would insert one in the middle and the following week I would think about adding a super.

I feel here you have held you bees back by letting them have a super too early. You are also arguably putting too much stress on the drone/varroa aspect with your half frames in the brood nest.

A bit here of trotting whilst trying to learn to walk.

PH

 

[JohnSB]

Thanks for the reply! I will have a think about what you have said, cheers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Welcome to the forum John like you it's taken me two to three years from deciding to actually getting bees. Unlike you i'm still not organised! but it's been a very interesting learning curve.
Emyr

 

[pipewrench36]

Welcome to the forum John, it is a bit of a mine field. If you dare to share an opinion that does not align with some others, you will quickly be blown out of the water. But don't let this put you off. Good luck.

 

[oliver90owner]

If you dare to share an opinion that does not align with some others, you will quickly be blown out of the water.

Not true. But if you are exalting your day-old theories as gospel, without recourse to years of fact and practise to back them up, and without any sensible reasoning behind the hypothesis (that is all most of them are, really), expect them to be dis-proven.

There are an awful lot out there reading these hypotheses, touted as 'theories' and believing they are 'Laws', which they are not. The newbies should be learning by reading, reasoning, and debate, but not continuing when they full-well know their hypothesis - 'pet theory' (or 'poll') - is totally inappropriate.

In most cases a little experience would demonstrate their ideas are mis-conceived. From that they should learn a lot more about this simple craft (and it is simple - just a great deal to learn). Most queries can be broken down (simplified ) to a series of 'yes -no' questions followed by a 'go to' for the next step. Unfortunately there are so many alternative routes to the 'reqired action' that it can appear complex. Try it and see!

RAB

 

[pipewrench36]

If you dare to share an opinion that does not align with some others, you will quickly be blown out of the water.

Not true. But if you are exalting your day-old theories as gospel, without recourse to years of fact and practise to back them up, and without any sensible reasoning behind the hypothesis (that is all most of them are, really), expect them to be dis-proven.

There are an awful lot out there reading these hypotheses, touted as 'theories' and believing they are 'Laws', which they are not. The newbies should be learning by reading, reasoning, and debate, but not continuing when they full-well know their hypothesis - 'pet theory' (or 'poll') - is totally inappropriate.

In most cases a little experience would demonstrate their ideas are mis-conceived. From that they should learn a lot more about this simple craft (and it is simple - just a great deal to learn). Most queries can be broken down (simplified ) to a series of 'yes -no' questions followed by a 'go to' for the next step. Unfortunately there are so many alternative routes to the 'reqired action' that it can appear complex. Try it and see!

RAB

I rest my case

 

[oliver90owner]

Did you think I should agree with you?

There are always those that want to see and those that don't.

I rest my case, after giving examples, not just pushing a pet theory.

 

[Rosti]

Pipewrench I don't usually get involved in these debates but today I will (perhaps the raw bacon fror breakfast was a bad thing).

There is a difference between reasoned debate and dogged adherence to a non-validated or received position. We all post to celebrate achievement. We all post to seek support. The post requested critique and support. A poorly formed opinion is not above critique either. I don't think you have a case, so there is no need to rest it, end of.

This is a practical hobby, supported by theory but theory on its own does not create a decent keeper. So much of beekeeping is observational and without experience those observation skills can not be developed. There is of course proactive anticipation of colony needs and manipulation to counter / supress an anticipated activity e.g. swarm control. In such an instance you still need to be able to evaluate impact and determine next steps.

No of colonies x years keeping is a useful weather gauge. Do your multiple and then do the same for others on here. As a first season keeper yours comes out at zero, mine does only a little better at 14. I am a reasonably solid, rudimentary keeper and know what I need to know next, what about you?

 

[pipewrench36]

Thank you Rosti and oliver90wner. If you would like to look at my post once again you will see that I am not offering any advice or opinion. I merely added my welcome to John and pointed out that sometimes ones opinion can get blown out of the water, something you have both clearly illustrated. You have also illustrated that you are obviously more educated than I, and can use words of more than 2 syllables, (not neccessarily in the right context). In my own defence I can only say that at least I am not so far up my own sphincter that I can't see when a drop of urine is being extracted.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

 

[oliver90owner]

Originally, it was: If you dare to share an opinion that does not align with some others, you will quickly be blown out of the water.

Now it is:sometimes ones opinion can get blown out of the water

Just a little more than a subtle change? My response was to the original.

RAB

 

[colin]

Poly Hive is right, turning frames of foundation about .My father was taught to do this when he worked with a bee farmer and we still us this method today with no problems.

 

[oliver90owner]

Poly Hive is a master at the craft. But many will not properly read the other bits such as A week later you should if the weather has been kind He goes on to say what he does if and what he would expect. They don't always happen/or the bees don't respond ideally, but he will naturally understand and expect that. That was likely why his nucs were not ready quite as early as some this season. He knew they could not be 'forced' earlier.

These nucs are generally his previously owned bees and he has some good idea of their provenance, the flow conditions, etc and will modify his method according to the progress made.

His hives will be warmer than timber ones. He makes no reference to feeding them silly amounts of sugar syrup, either - his intent all the way along is for the bees to increase the brood, not stores of sugar syrup. It is bees that collect the honey surplus, not sugar syrup stores.

Nucs where the queen is an addition, just before despatch (and not a jolly over-wintered nuc with offspring guaranteed to belong to the queen) may not respond quite so positively as do P H's. If he finds he is a little too over enthusiastic, he knows and compensates. As I say - he is a past master at it, and was shown how to do it before practising under supervision (probably). A far better grounding than a new beek who only started on their own, from scratch, last week!

New beekeepers beware!

RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

Crikey!

Compliments galore.

Actually I was not taught nuc making as such but was taught my beekeeping by real Bee Masters, not amateurs with a ticket and an attitude but working beemen.

I have also been commercial in the past and was for a while a Bee Farmer in my own right but that is another matter all together.

I try to give clear advice and seem in this instance to have failed? If so apologies for any confusion but I was trying to straighten out what was not good practice for anyone let alone a beginner.

PH

 

[Cazza]

Actually I was not taught nuc making as such but was taught my beekeeping by real Bee Masters, not amateurs with a ticket and an attitude but working beemen.

PH

That's an interesting turn of phrase. Is it an old one that I haven't heard before or one you made up? Did it apply to other activities or solely bees? It's not in regular use in Suffolk as far as I know.
Cazza

 

[colin]

Hi Poly Hive as you know Bernard Mobus was indeed a Bee Master in is own right .my father
was taught the craft by Billy Robinson who was a well respected Bee Master and bee farmer.

 

[Poly Hive]

"Bee Master" is an old term and there is also a book called if I remember rightly The Beemaster of Warminlow or close to.

PH

 

[JohnSB]

Sorry for causing a commotion all. I for one fully understand that as a noob I don't know it all, which is the primary reason I am here. As a noob I also know I am going to make mistakes, but I'm not afraid to make them .

Returning if I may to the original advice offered, I would like to ask a few questions:

You are also arguably putting too much stress on the drone/varroa aspect with your half frames in the brood nest.

Do you say this because you disagree that two short frames in the brood chamber is a good idea, or that you think I over egg the importance of it? To me the Varroa control aspect of the short frames being moved to the brood chamber was really incidental, the main purpose was to increase the brood area.

I do this a lot and you are right in thinking you have been taking risks.

Which aspects particularly do you think were risky? The part I though was risky was the non-brood frame insertion in to the brood nest, however you then go on to recommend this (in the specific circumstance you describe).

I was taught to use the +1 system many years ago [...]

This sounds really good. Would you also combine this with the method described in Ted Hooper where you move frames around to encourage growth in brood area on individual frames? Have you ever had any disasters from inserting a blank frame in to the centre of the brood nest in the way you describe?

I feel here you have held you bees back by letting them have a super too early.

Were my concerns about the bees limiting themselves on space and potentially causing them to start building queen cells not valid do you think? Would not adding the super made them more inclined to expand the brood nest?



Thanks again for your first reply, and any more advise you are able to give.

 

[user 6228]

Welcome to the hive... I see you have already confronted the guard bees