Need some advice following inspection

[Scammell]

Good evening all,
I am in need of some advice from the better beekeepers than I.
Today Myself and a work colleague, someone who knew all about keeping bees he said... (Hmmm, not so sure now)
Anyway, he went through the frames one by one as I took some pictures. He said everything was fine and to go ahead and put a super on as the brood was as it should be...
Shouldn't we locate the queen said I?
No its fine, she is doing her job so everything is fine.
He put all the frames back in and the then I put on an excluder and the super.
My real concern now is that its late in the evening and after the inspection I had a huge number of bees on the outside of the hive around the entrance. The number has decreased but there are still a thick covering there and they don't seem to be heading inside.
I a guessing that a night outside is probably going to lead to their demise....
Can anyone offer any advise on this as I would be heartbroken to lose this colony...
Thanks

 

[enrico]

Don't worry at all, they will be fine, the only thing I might check is that the queen isn't with them. I would say this is highly unlikely and that they will all go in later. If it stays very warm some may even stay outside, often you get bearding down the front of the hive from the entrance which is also quite normal. To check for the queen, put your suit on and just breath gently on the main group of bees, they will move aside and you can see if she is there. It really is very unlikely though and even if she is there she will probably go back in.
E

 

[B+.]

Shouldn't we locate the queen said I?
No its fine, she is doing her job so everything is fine.

The photos show plenty of sealed brood, capped honey and pollen which are all good signs. I'm just a little concerned about the space available for the queen to lay. Are there frames of eggs/larvae on the other combs?
The addition of the super will provide space for the workers gathered on the outside of the hive to go in without restricting the flow of air around the brood...so, thats ok.
Compared to my own colonies in double Lagstroth brood boxes, I would say that she may need more brood area too...especially if the other combs are as full as those you have shown
It would have been nice if you had seen a queen, but, if you have brood in all stages, there is no need to panic

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

bees tend to move outside the hive while the beek is clattering about doing an inspection - Had one colony last saturday and the whole of the outside (hive with three supers) was absolutely covered with bees. They moved back in eventually.
You will also find at night, when there's a flow on that bees will hang around on the outside of a well populated hive to allow better circulation of air inside during their honey ripening process.
He was right about the queen BTW. There's too much weight given by newbies on seeing the queen each inspection. His statement 'she's doing her job' tells me he saw eggs, larvae and capped brood so evidence of a queen in the hive and that, most of the time, is enough.

 

[Scammell]

Thank you all!
I can now sleep more soundly.
Sort of feel like a new father as this is my first ever hive and your comments are all very welcome.
Very few outside now but still some. I checked for the queen but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the cluster.

As this is a new colony should I possibly be adding another brood box rather than a super, build the colony further before hoping to see any honey?

Thank you again for your help, very much appreciated I can assure you.
Nigel

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As this is a new colony should I possibly be adding another brood box rather than a super, build the colony further before hoping to see any honey?

Depends how many frames of brood were in the hive and what your future objectives are.

 

[Vortex]

He was right about the queen BTW. There's too much weight given by newbies on seeing the queen each inspection.

It's something that time and again comes up .. I very rarely specifically look for my queens (they do like hiding). I look for the evidence of her presence and the time frame when the evidence points to her last being there.. stages of eggs and larva.

 

[Poly Hive]

When posting about the status of a colony especially regarding supering the number I look for is the amount of brood.

I sup on 8 National frames of brood as a rule. Through experience I may not on some colonies deciding to give them another week if they look a bit thin for bees but that is judegment. I read of people supering on 5 which is a strong nuc size. So please wait a bit and let them get to a decent strength and you know what? They don't have excluder issues.

PH

 

[Fatbee]

Scammel they're your bees so you should be building your experience in handling by doing the inspection with your colleague looking over your shoulder providing pointers and advice. Only way you will learn

 

[Scammell]

Scammel they're your bees so you should be building your experience in handling by doing the inspection with your colleague looking over your shoulder providing pointers and advice. Only way you will learn

I've had the Bees since April and have inspected them myself on two occasions previously. That said I have only ever removed one or two frames when there was little to see and activity was much less.
As the Bees gave become busier and the colony has increased in size I have been acutely aware of the holes in my knowledge regarding stages of brood and exactly what I was seeing with regard to the various cells, nectar, eggs, larvae, bees.
I am certainly not a stand aside beekeeper and take the keeping of them very seriously.
This is why I chose to have someone with more experience than I look over the frames and point out what was to be seen thereon.
Next time I may well carry out such an inspection on my own but I am not keen on learning the craft by way of my mistakes which to be fair could be catastrophic for the colony....
Let's face it we don't learn to drive a car by going out on the road and being involved in several accidents to learn how to use the brakes do we?
Thank you for your advice.

 

[Cussword]

Scammel they're your bees so you should be building your experience in handling by doing the inspection with your colleague looking over your shoulder providing pointers and advice. Only way you will learn

Are you a member of an association? If they have an apiary, you could learn from other members.

.

 

[B+.]

I think you're being a bit harsh here. He's doing his best with limited experience.
I took a look at the colony this afternoon: nice colony with sealed brood and ~2 day old larve (no eggs or sight of the queen despite going through the colony twice). I saw no eggs or even space for a queen to lay but several queen cells in various stages of development. There is lots of fresh nectar in the cells and they are drawing comb in the super.
I cleaned the brace comb off the bottom of the deep frames (lots of wax drawing bees on the bottom) and placed the super under the brood box to give them space to work.
I believe the queen was lost in the last inspection but providing them with half-drawn comb in the super will allow a queen to lay (if she is present and we missed her - possible but unlikely).

 

[Cussword]

How was I harsh? I thought I gave constructive advice.

.

 

[B+.]

How was I harsh? I thought I gave constructive advice.

.

It seemed to me that people were saying "get on with it and learn from your mistakes".
No offence intended.

 

[Obee1]

Well done B+ for getting off your butt and going round to help a new beek in his hour of need. . I think we could all do with a B+ to call on in times of beek stress!

 

[Scammell]

Well done B+ for getting off your butt and going round to help a new beek in his hour of need. . I think we could all do with a B+ to call on in times of beek stress!

Yes indeed, a B+ in times of need is certainly something I have been very grateful for this last few days as my need has been great with obviously high stress levels to accompany it all, for me and most likely the bees.

I admit that I was ill qualified to take on the keeping of the bees but as they were a birthday gift from my wife I had little time available to learn all that I needed to know.

That said, I have been acutely aware of these shortcomings and have done all I can to fill some of the gaps in the knowledge required. Books, videos and indeed this very forum have proved to be invaluable resources but with known limitations.

B+ was kind enough to "take me under his wing" so to speak and has given up a good deal of his weekend, yesterday and today, to try and help the colony out.
I have learnt more from him in the last few days than I could ever hope to learn from non hands on training such as written word and video.

The situation as of now is that B+ has provided my colony a new sealed queen cell which should be emerging late next week and a week after that she will have hopefully be fertilised and getting ready to start laying again.
We have given the colony more brood space and I am feeling much more positive about the outlook for the "Girls" which now at least have a fighting chance of getting back to a queen led colony.

In answer to previous questions, yes I am now a member of the Bedfordshire Beekeepers Association and will be taking their courses as and when they become available... A case of bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted possibly but its the best I can do at present.

A heartfelt Thank you to B+ for basically giving up his weekend on my behalf (And possibly being locked out of his house!!) and all those who have given constructive advice along the way, I am indebted.

With luck the next update in a few weeks will be to say the new queen is alive and well and doing what she is meant to do... We will see.

 

[B+.]

A heartfelt Thank you to B+ for basically giving up his weekend on my behalf (And possibly being locked out of his house!!) and all those who have given constructive advice along the way, I am indebted.

With luck the next update in a few weeks will be to say the new queen is alive and well and doing what she is meant to do... We will see.

You are very welcome.
For the benefit of the forum: I left home this morning without my key (not, as some of you may suspect, that Mrs B+ had finally seen sense and locked me out!)

 

[Tremyfro]

You are very welcome.
For the benefit of the forum: I left home this morning without my key (not, as some of you may suspect, that Mrs B+ had finally seen sense and locked me out!)

Ah ha.....perhaps she hid your key! At this very moment she is taking over your Bee Empire...weighing up how many handbags and shoes everything is worth!

 

[B+.]

Ah ha.....perhaps she hid your key! At this very moment she is taking over your Bee Empire...weighing up how many handbags and shoes everything is worth!

You've seen how many hand bags she has then!

 

[Scammell]

Been a while since an update so here I am with some good news....
Unfortunately the Re-Queening using a Queen cell from B+ did not go according to plan. Everything pointed to that cell being torn down by the bees and of course they remained Queenless.
B+ was again able to come to the rescue last Saturday with a mated queen which we introduced to the hive.
Given the fact the hive was getting somewhat desperate with very little in the way of capped brood and of course no eggs or larvae they welcomed her in with open arms and the introduction is something that I felt quite honoured to be able to watch.
I left them a week and took a careful look inside yesterday. Eggs, Larvae and sight of the new queen has put a vey nice smile upon my face.... All is once again well in my Birthday hive.
I don't quite know where to begin with the thanks that are due. B+ gave up considerable amounts of his time to travel to my hive and carry out inspections with me, set the new queen cell and finally provide and introduce the new queen.
Without his help I fear the colony would have died out quite soon and that was something that I definitely did not want to happen.
The amount I have learnt from him is priceless for a newbie beekeeper such as me and I will be eternally grateful for all that has done.
Also thanks are due to members of the forum here for their advice and confidence that all would be well.
Thank you all.