Need help choosing my 1st hive

[Rustybees]

Im going to be buying 1st hive soon n wondered what kind of hive i should be buying. Iv looked online there's a few to choose from but the national seems to be the biggest but would that size be ok for a beginner, if not what would be? I have contacts to get a nuc of bees but what do i put them into? Im assured they're strong local bees and have a good queen with them, just want some thoughts on this.

 

[itma]

Rusty, begin by joining your local association and taking an intro course.



*THEN* you'll know what the local favourites (and hates) might be.
When you start is *not* the time to go in a unique direction!
Lets start by thinking about the frames your nuc might come on. It ain't the obviously smart thing to try and move them across to something different before either you or they are established.

The (standard - "deep") National brood box isn't large.
Personally I favour its deeper still ("jumbo") variant known as the 14x12.
But I don't think one hive fits all.

It depends on lots of things (quite a lot on your bees) but not really on the experience or otherwise of the beek.

Don't rush into buying equipment!

 

[Neils]

The national is far from the biggest hive in terms of size, but it is the most commonly used. The easy get out answer is what is everyone around you using? If most other people are using nationals then your start out in beekeeping will probably be more straightforward if you choose that hive as well as any locally supplied Nucs will be on frames compatible with your hive and if you run into difficulty there will be little problem finding someone who can help you out.

 

[Pete D]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14770

Hi Rusty, this thread will help. Get this right, take the time to make the right decision. I jumped into nationals, then brood and half, then 14x12 !
If I started again I would go poly Langstroth and would be the only 1 I know of in my local 300 strong association !

Pete D

 

[Moggs]

Baa! Though it makes sense to understand any compatibility issues concerning the local beekeeping preference, I wouldn't allow this to unduly influence my choice.

I started on standard nationals and was so glad to move up a gear to 14x12.

Agreed, no need to be a nonconformist for the sake of it but make a well researched choice for the right reasons!

 

[drstitson]

as per the above - the national is just about the smallest.

obviously sticking to something using national frames is sensible re purchasing the actual bees BUT many on here would recommend going the 14x12 route (ie equivalent to brood and a half national).

 

[isc26]

Keep it simple. National is a widespread standard. Some good starter packages exist, one is bees on a budget from th0rnes. Beware of the incompatability of different hives & frames.

 

[domino]

I went to my local association beginners course and checked out what the majority of them were using; nationals. When you start you don't want to be using less common hives it's just one more problem in a rather busy first year.

Once you're comfortable with bees you can keep them in whatever box you want.

 

[tyke]

One thing to bear in mind before you choose hive types is how much you may have to move your hive around in the apiary. Hopefully not much!

A full size national hive will weigh 30kgs if it has a lot of stores and a 14 x 12 around 40kgs.

Andy

 

[herefordshirehoney]

The choice is yours, try and see top and bottom beespace first on other peoples hives then make a decision. Most will be bottom beespace in nationals (not all though nationals can be brought in top beespace).

Personally for me Langstroth Poly's are the only way forward after taking everything into consideration and i'm probably the only member of the local association out of 250 odd that has gone this route. Bear in mind im thinking of bees health, climate conditions and honey production when choosing this not how the hive looks like which a lot of people prefer wood.

Work out where you are going to get your bees from ie. nuc/swarm as this may limit your choices or you might have to source frames, etc.

 

[Teemore]

Hi Rustybees,
There are a few beekeeping associations not far from you - some will be starting their beginners courses so it would be an opportune time to go along for a chat and join in.

Belfast Beekeepers Association: http://belfastbees.wordpress.com/
East Antrim Beekeepers Association contact Blackcavebees on this site for info.
Mid Antrim Beekeepers Association - their details are on the UBKA website. Send me a PM with your E mail address and I will forward a contact list for all the local associations in NI and the border counties which I prepared for a recent event I helped organise on behalf of the INIB.

The most common hive in NI (and indeed Ireland) is the National. Some folk use Langstroffs and there are a fair number of people who use Commercials. If you plan to start your beekeeping career by purchasing a nucleus colony, it is likely that it would be supplied on national frames. That should inform your choice of hive.

Price might be a determining factor for you - there are a lot of places you can buy complete hives along with the requisite frames and wax foundation. Shop around - some associations operate a bulk buying scheme so that their members can purchase apiary requisites at a reduced cost - take advantage of this where possible.

 

[Moggs]

If you plan to start your beekeeping career by purchasing a nucleus colony, it is likely that it would be supplied on national frames. That should inform your choice of hive.

Though much better to change five or six frames than sixty! Many factors in play. I would imagine that most new beekeepers are influenced by the traditional mindset of the majority ("we've always done it this way") and nationals form the focus of early years. How many beekeepers move on, to something more suited to the needs of their bees?

Ah, we've done it again. Ask five beekeepers a question.....

Rusty, don't despair, there are no right and wrong answers - probably better to start with what you collect from the supplier and pick up experience of your bees' behaviour. Bear in mind that the queen of any hive has a great deal of influence on the whole colony.

 

[richardbees]

If I was starting from scratch, I would have 'top bee space' using National hives with 12" deep BB

 

[REDWOOD]

The standard national hives are small, made this mistake first year and did not have another BB to double brood which ended up with swarming, if you have a prolific queen you need something a bit bigger 14x12 is a good option with the added benefit of more room for winter stores.

 

[itma]

If I was starting from scratch, I would have 'top bee space' using National hives with 12" deep BB

I think sensible advice to give to an absolute beginner (who may not stick with the game) is to buy something that can easily be sold on, in the event that things don't work out.
So I would suggest (at the very beginning) avoiding non-standard 'refinements' - like top beespace on any National variant.

I also feel that such digressions are bound to confuse the beginner -- who likely doesn't know the difference between top and bottom beespace designs, let alone that he can in effect give a bog-standard national top beespace by simply using a framed wire queen excluder.


The only area where I would think non-standard *might* make sense is with material.
Especially if someone is not confident about putting together a flat-pack hive *accurately*, a ready-made hive can make sense for a first hive. However, they are not cheap.
Which means that a ready-made polystyrene foam hive (for roughly the cost of a wood flat-pack) would represent a smaller commitment (and a likely smaller financial loss in the event of baling out after the first year or two).
But (if going national or 14x12) do still invest in a proper (framed) qx and a proper (framed, see-through) cover board!



/// Oh, and moving from National to 14x12 is about as easy (for a newish beek) as any hive format change is likely to be.

 

[busybee53]

All good advice above. I would add to it as follows. Get in touch with other beekeepers as suggested but then ask to have a look at their hives. If at all possible feel the weight. Hives bigger than nationals are best for the bees but for me the weight would make that impossible. With a good crop of honey (we wish) the weight will be even more.

 

[Black Comb]

Why move hives?
My jumbo langs. are heavy but I rarely need to move them. Most haven't been shifted for 3 years or more which is when I started with them. (switched from double nats)
Not like the weekly lift with double nats and the added possibly of crushing bees.

 

[BeeJayBee]

If at all possible feel the weight. Hives bigger than nationals are best for the bees but for me the weight would make that impossible.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8293

Wooden box if cedar, is 2.5kg for shallow super.
3kg for brood box.

[18mm] Ply standard national brood box is 4.1kg.

Weight of empty National poly brood varies from 1.6kg to 1.9kg, depends on brand.

Sw1enty poly Lang (body) brood is 1.6kg, Jumbo (Dadant depth) brood is 2kg, super (medium) is 1.2kg http://www.swienty.com/shop/vare.asp?side=0&vareid=100031

 

[DulwichGnome]

Rusty, have a look at Rose hives, all the same size box and all the same size frames. If you don't like the look of them then at least you have made an informed chose.

Mike

 

[whoosling]

Keep it simple. National is a widespread standard. Some good starter packages exist, one is bees on a budget from th0rnes. Beware of the incompatability of different hives & frames.

I've just got one of the above simply because I started with a national and wanted to keep all the same, also if things go wrong/you need emergency equipment most the guys in my assoc use nationals and are all ready to lend a hand or a bit of equip, hopefully this being my second year I'll be abit more together and have my own emergency stuff or be able to help new memembers !!!!!