Moving to 14 x 12

[alynewbee]

I'm a new beek in my first season of bee keeping. I'd like to move my national brood into a 14 x 12. My current set up is OMF, standard national brood, QE, + 2 supers. Does anyone have any experience of doing this? I'm particularly wonding about:
1) what time of year is the best to do this?
2) what is the best method (ie do it now by some method or wait till they are showing signs of swarming and do it by another method then)?
3) what should I do with the old national frames (which I'm guessing will still be full of stores at the end of the process)?

THe reason I'm wanting to do this is because I'm worried about a standard nation bb being able to contain my bees (I'm in North Hampshire just alongside two HUGE areas of heath land) and as an inexperienced beek I really want to avoid brood and a half. But I realise I may have to go double bb if they get really busy. Any advice would be most welcome. Thank you. Aly

 

[bushman1872]

Hi Aly

Yep I moved both my colonies onto 14x12s a month ago. You could do a bailey change see Dave Cushmans site regarding the finer points. This basically this involves put 14x12 on top of old brood box and letting the girls draw it out. To help them along I fed them syrup with an ashforth feeder. Once a good proportion of the foundation has been drawn out remove the feeder and start checking to see if eggs are being laid upstairs which would indicate that her maj has moved up. You then want to make sure she stays up stairs by putting a queen excluder between 14x12 bb and old bb. Leave it 2 weeks for all brood down below to hatch out and then remove old bb and excluder.
This process sort of replicates the bees natural tendancy to move up leaving behind the old comb.
I then melted all the frames down for the wax as there might be traces of varroa treatment still present in the stores, there might not be but i'd rather not chance it.

hope this helps

 

[oliver90owner]

Now might be a good time. New box of foundation over the brood box and wait for them to start drawing comb and her laying in it. Q/E the bottom box when she is upstairs and wait three weeks +, before removing the bottom box. Job done with no hassle and all the remaining stores moved up, if you are lucky.

Problems might be when to start if rape supers are on - you want those filled and ready for extraction shortly.

Dependent on forage it might just not happen very quickly - the June gap might become the May gap this year.

Choose now whether 14 x 12 or double deep. Mine are on 14 x 12 and a super in several cases. One is absolutely 'chocka' with bees and has brood on 10 frames in the jumbo and lots more in two storeys above. I put another 14 x 12 box on it yesterday with a Q/E above the brood box.

Monday will show where she is (eggs) - but I am expecting (even hoping for) some queen cells as I stacked the brood with some in the fourth box (the second jumbo) as I am wanting supercedure cells from this colony to be making up a few splits.

An alternative is to add extenders to your deep frames to convert them to jumbo. I wouldn't do that.

I would advise getting to two colonies at this time - so much easier to manage when problems arise - so this might be a factor in choosing how you do it. A/S is an option for arriving quickly at two hives - one of each size - then you can change the other at your leisure.

Choices, choices!

Regards, RAB

 

[alynewbee]

Dear RAB and Bushman,
Thank you so much for the advice, wonderful.
Rab, - I'd love to get two colonies, that's certainly what I'm aiming for next year, but the thing that puts me off for this year is firstly my inexperience, and secondly, needing two sets of spare kit to cope with any swarming behaviour they might start up. Him indoors is having a fit already at the never ending cheque stubs and to tell him I need two more bbs (plus stands plus frames, roof etc) might just do him in!

Back to my original thougts, I didn't mention that my colony is a swarm hived 3 weeks ago. Does that make a difference? The ladies drew out the whole national box of foundation in about 9 days, but I worry I might be making them work too hard by expecting them to do it all again in a bigger box (or am I just being soft?).

Thanks again.
Aly

 

[bushman1872]

No sure about the overworking bit. Now you mention about it having been a swarm just bear in mind that they tend to go into overdrive for a bit as in the wild they would have to build an entire hive from scratch and fill it before winter comes. They might settle down after a few months.

 

[alynewbee]

Thank you, Bushman, and yes, I think I've noticed what you say. The first box and first super they filled in no time at all. Definitely a bit slower now, but still doing well. Had a look today and I'm in two minds whether to do it right away, or to wait a little while. I upset them big style by trying (and failing) to catch the queen to mark her.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Just to be contrary:-

I have just one 14 x 12 in my apiary and I'm thinking or changing it back to a standard brood chamber (14 x 8.5 I guess you could call it). This is my third year of the 14 x 12.

Reasons:-
Hoffman spacing bits are far too long and in a big colony tend to crush bees and can accomodate lots of propolis. (Don't know why they are so long?)
The bottom of the comb tends to get chewed up.
Too deep for a standard hive tool to go down the side if needed.
Frames heavy - especially when full of stores. Needs more care when handling than smaller frames.


I will give it this season before I finally decide. Currently I think I would prefer to use double brood when needed rather than the larger brood box. (NEVER brood and a half).

If you want to go bigger, the other option and retain most of your stuff is to go commercial - 16 x 10.

 

[whizzwheels]

My thinking on changing to 14 x 12 is why not take the frames that have eggs, stores, etc and put them in the 14 x 12 allow the bees to build comb on the bottom and add additional 14 x 12 frames to fill in the remaining space in the box. Then replaced the old brood frames (standard size) with new 14 x 12 in the normal process of replacing frames, i.e. spring clean or earlier if they are empty.
I know when I bought my first nuc the brood box had super frames in for stores/feed and as the colony built up they built comb on the bottom of these frames to make them fit the brood box, and very good comb it was I must admit.
They may be a reason for not doing it this way but I haven't come accross it yet and neither have my bees it would seem.

 

[wilderness]

tried a Bailey comb change from 14x12 to National. They filled the National with honey! What did I do wrong

 

[bushman1872]

Did you pop a feeder on top to help with the drawing out of new foundation? If so maybe you left it on there a little too long or did you do it later on in the year, at which point they may have been preparing for winter?