Missing Queen

[thundercat]

We had a 1 yr old, Cypriot queen. She was a very productive queen, but about two weeks ago, she disappeared. One symptom was that the bees started to increase the production of queen cells. Normally, the Q cells were always empty, but all of a sudden the queen started laying eggs in these cells. We had kept a good watch on the hive (opening it up at least once a week for a good check, and confirmed that she was alive)... We noticed that the laying had stopped (or slowed down), but it's difficult to know whether she has disappeared (so that's why the laying appeared to slow down), or if she was ill/damaged (and that's why the laying slowed down).

Does anyone have any experience with the Cypriot queen? Is she likely to have flown the hive?

 

[thundercat]

Here's an update to the story... After 2 weeks, with no evidence of further laying, we added a new queen (a Buckfast Q). After 3 days, we opened up the hive and found no evidence of the Queen or laying. However, we did find ONE Q cell with an egg in it! I can only think that we missed her during our search, but it was very strange to find the only evidence of laying was one egg in a Q cell. There is a non-zero probability that she had laid other eggs and we missed it, but we really had a good look and didn't see anything.

 

[oliver90owner]

Do you think the colony could possibly have swarmed?

Perhaps a virgin queen in the colony killed your introduced queen?

I think those are two very likely scenarios.

RAB

 

[Polyanwood]

What a shame. I think the likliest scenario is as Rab says.

 

[richardbees]

thundercat,

I don't understand your post as you say that:

..."Q cells were always empty, but all of a sudden the queen started laying eggs in these cells"...

my understanding is this observation was after you suspect she left?

However, I agree with the above that you probably had a virgin Q and if it's a fully populated BB you may be looking at another swarming colony next week.(...that egg wasn't an immaculate birth!!..) so keep inspecting.

It's hard to tell from the info you provided.

Richard

 

[thundercat]

Once again (with more detail)

OK, let's try this again.

On the Sunday, I went to look at the hive, and the Queen was there. She looked OK, but I noticed that there was no evidence of her laying. She was normally a good layer, so the absence was a bit of a surprise. However, I am saying this with hindsight.

On the Wednesday, I went to have another look and the Queen was missing. There was no evidence of any further laying. Most importantly, there was no evidence of a hatched queen and the quantity of bees was still as big as the previous week.

So, that is the story of the FIRST missing Queen. Swarming is unlikely, and I think it more likely that the 1 year old Queen stopped laying for some reason, and then .... So, what could have happened?

About 10 days later, I got a new queen [purchased from Fragile Planet], and put her cage in the hive. Three days later, we went to check on the hive. I suspect that the queen was probably accepted by the colony [she was out of her cage, and the bees were calmer than previously]. However, I couldn't find the Q, and what stumps me is that there is no evidence of her laying. The only thing I found was ONE egg laid in a Queen cell!!

That's the story of the SECOND Queen

I'm inspecting the hive again tomorrow [a week after adding the new queen], and hopefully, we'll see the eggs. But, I'm confused as to the causes

 

[North West Bees]

Try feeding if no food then Queen will not lay.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The old queen is still in the hive,just gone off lay....thinned down in preparation for swarming,or stopped due to lack of honey flow.

 

[North West Bees]

 

[thundercat]

Both Queens are missing

An update.

I opened the hive: we have two brood boxes and two supers. No sign of the queen (either one), and no sign of any egg laying. The newest queen has been missing for 8 days, and the old queen about 10 days before that. The brood boxes are mostly empty with some honey and pollen, but no eggs. The top supers are nicely filling up with honey.

Only a handful of unhatched drones remain from the first queens, and we've decided it's time to get a nuc [as the last queen didn't take].

 

[jimbeekeeper]

production of queen cells.

we added a new queen .

and we've decided it's time to get a nuc [as the last queen didn't take].

TBH you are just throwing your money about!!!

Read up a bit more and understand what is going on, or you will be buying another queen and or nuc AGAIN before the season is even ended.

 

[Poly Hive]

I suspect you are throwing good money away here.

I would suggest you try a test frame to make it clear whether you have a virgin in residence or not.

PH

 

[richardbees]

Thundercat

That's a pretty good summation describing a pair of failed colonies......to be honest, I think you should read up a bit more on the basics of Beekeeping - and then buy a Nuc.

(Also, It might be a good idea to consolidate your super frames of honey into one box and protect from predators)

Richard

 

[thundercat]

This is Year 2

We have had the hive for a year, so this isn't a new hive that we've somehow messed up. The bees over-wintered very well, and we completely happy with their progress in April, and most of May. But then she stopped laying and hence my quest for WHY began....

 

[bushman1872]

sounds like a few people have had issues with missing or misbehaving queens. I wonder why?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

T'cat,

If the queen had stopped laying and there were queencells then she was being prepared to swarm. She might have swarmed, it's easy to miss and after swarming the bee numbers increases rapidly as brood emerges. Also if the wind gets up, bees can lose the queen and fly back home. Queens can go off lay too.
This is why it's good to have a second colony so you can add a test frame to see what's going on.

Bees can reject queens - probably more likely if of a different race.

And now a little story.

This year I have one colony that was going to swarm, I did a demaree on them and also took a nuc away. 3 weeks later the queen was not laying but present in the lower brood box. Just drone brood above the two supers. Lots of bees, little income. Neighbouring hive getting income. This hive; the bees were just doing nothing at all, couldn't be bothered to fly. Queen removed to a mini-nuc where she started laying straight away.
New queen introduced, a week later assumed killed.
Test frame proved queenlessness.
Second queen - a 4 week layer - put in in a cage, its plastic tab closed. Then tab broken after two days. Stiff candy behind. A week later eggs and larvae but queencells being drawn. I'm getting a bit fed up now. I've removed the queencells; maybe just maybe they will accept the queen. If they get rid of the queen I'll unite with a nuc.

 

[thundercat]

update & explanations

OK, we went to inspect the hive today, and saw there was egg laying - unfortunately, a laying worker. Hooper says at this point to abandon all hope, but we called Fragile Planet and they said we should try and re-queen.

We moved the entire hive to a different location and then cleared all the frames of bees and put all the empty frames back in the brood box in the original location. The theory is that all the foragers will come back to the hive, and the egg laying worker won't know where to go... Fingers crossed. We also added a new queen.

Further to the original loss of the queen, we've been told [and I was hoping for confirmation] that Cypriot Queens have a tendency of flying off.

 

[Polyanwood]

My Cypriot queens didn't fly off, but I do clip my queens. I thought they were alright and better than the Greeks or New Zealanders.

 

[thundercat]

Success... And confusion

Update: We had success with the new queen and we can see that she is happy and laying eggs everywhere.

The problem is that we also have eggs in the supers! That leaves three possibilities [according to Fragile Planet]:
- the workers have moved some eggs into the supers
- there are two queens [one above and one below the Q excluder]
- there is one queen and one [or more] laying worker(s)

I suspect that there are a few laying workers, but there is a possibility that we have two queens. When we see how the eggs have developed, we'll know for sure.

Q1: What's the life span of a laying worker?

Q2: Given the new queen has been accepted, will the laying worker stop? Or is the colony more likely to kill the new queen [even though she's been happily laying for a week]?

 

[thundercat]

The Queen Is Happy

We've had a look at the queen, and she is happily laying. Unfortunately, we have laying worker(s) (it's all drone in the supers). We've thrown out all the drone heavy comb, and replaced it with fresh comb. We've frozen some of the drone heavy combs in the super, and we'll put them back in 48 hours.