Mentor took Q away

[Ian123]

Hi Gary be careful when going back in and good you’ve marked the frame with the cell. Qcells often get attached to adjacent frames and ripped when separated so be careful and ensure it’s ok before destroying any others!
Definitely have a word with someone there I don’t think any here can fathom a reason for removing the queen and it’s really quite stupid. You’ve no idea if the cell will hatch or the virgin will even mate properly leaving you with a non viable hive!.
I would suggest the simplest thing he could have done is an artificial swarm retaining the old queen and giving the cell a chance to hatch and mate. You could then keep the separate hives or United.
Associations do struggle for help and sometimes it’s the more willing rather than the most able

 

[GaryH]

Thanks for the note back. What you said was the normal course of action is exactly what I expected to happen
I think he’s able. I’m an old cynic so I have my own uncomfortable theories about why this happened.
I guess whatever I have, I just need to proliferate the bees and re queen if I have to. I understand the emerging virgin queen will mate with hybrid mongrel local bees. Which may or may not result in the desirable colony traits

 

[Wilco]

Thanks for the note back. What you said was the normal course of action is exactly what I expected to happen
I think he’s able. I’m an old cynic so I have my own uncomfortable theories about why this happened.
I guess whatever I have, I just need to proliferate the bees and re queen if I have to. I understand the emerging virgin queen will mate with hybrid mongrel local bees. Which may or may not result in the desirable colony traits

Another option, if the small colony isn't nice is to requeen it with a bought in queen.

 

[North End Bees]

I nuc'd a queen last year and reduced Q cells in the original colony down to one good looking larva. When I went back a few weeks later to check if the new Queen was laying the cell was still intact. Opened to find a dead pupa. Luckily old Queen was doing well in nuc so easy enough to unite back.

Your mentor should have helped you keep your queen in case the same arises.

 

[GaryH]

I understand this scenario: I was at the training apiary yesterday and I was lucky enough to be guided by the local DEFRA professional, full time paid bee inspector She also happens to be in our local club
There was a hive with a QC marked frame and note to inspect the QC and knock down any new.
She noted the workers were not “fussing over” this QC from the last inspection. She suspected the cell was a dud. She recommended that we go with a new QC that the girls were attending “fussing over”.
We did this and knocked out the remaining QCs
When we dissected the first Q cell marked at the previous inspection the almost fully developed virgin was dead inside
She was ‘upside down’ in the cell and consequently starved because she couldn’t get to the royal jelly.
So my bee keeping guru for the day concluded that the queen cell had been shook on the frame by an oblivious bee keeper the previous week.
Lesson learned

 

[North End Bees]

Yes shaking is as good for developing Queens as it is for babies

Your queen was only removed yesterday so there will still be young enough larvae for QCs. Go back in a few days and mark frames of best two then, when they're sealed you can make a split.

 

[Wilco]

I understand this scenario: I was at the training apiary yesterday and I was lucky enough to be guided by the local DEFRA professional, full time paid bee inspector She also happens to be in our local club
There was a hive with a QC marked frame and note to inspect the QC and knock down any new.
She noted the workers were not “fussing over” this QC from the last inspection. She suspected the cell was a dud. She recommended that we go with a new QC that the girls were attending “fussing over”.
We did this and knocked out the remaining QCs
When we dissected the first Q cell marked at the previous inspection the almost fully developed virgin was dead inside
She was ‘upside down’ in the cell and consequently starved because she couldn’t get to the royal jelly.
So my bee keeping guru for the day concluded that the queen cell had been shook on the frame by an oblivious bee keeper the previous week.
Lesson learned

If she was almost fully developed I'd expect her to be facing down, that's the way they have to be to emerge after pupation. The pupal stage doesn't eat as it's in a cocoon. Shaking might have killed her but not because it changes her orientation in the cell.

 

[Ian123]

I understand this scenario: I was at the training apiary yesterday and I was lucky enough to be guided by the local DEFRA professional, full time paid bee inspector She also happens to be in our local club
There was a hive with a QC marked frame and note to inspect the QC and knock down any new.
She noted the workers were not “fussing over” this QC from the last inspection. She suspected the cell was a dud. She recommended that we go with a new QC that the girls were attending “fussing over”.
We did this and knocked out the remaining QCs
When we dissected the first Q cell marked at the previous inspection the almost fully developed virgin was dead inside
She was ‘upside down’ in the cell and consequently starved because she couldn’t get to the royal jelly.
So my bee keeping guru for the day concluded that the queen cell had been shook on the frame by an oblivious bee keeper the previous week.
Lesson learned

Hi Gary…. If frames with qcells are shaken the larvae can detach, however what often happens with emerged cells is workers will go in to clean out the remaining jelly. For whatever reason their sisters like to close the door behind
I’ve seen more than my share of qcells and never yet seen a queen truly upside down!… maybe slumping,
It’s very common to find workers like this and just a little something to surprise you bee inspector with

 

[GaryH]

Hi Gary…. If frames with qcells are shaken the larvae can detach, however what often happens with emerged cells is workers will go in to clean out the remaining jelly. For whatever reason their sisters like to close the door behind
I’ve seen more than my share of qcells and never yet seen a queen truly upside down!… maybe slumping,
It’s very common to find workers like this and just a little something to surprise you bee inspector with

Also I saw a white eyed Drone
All the veterans were recording it.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Depending on your objectives you have a couple of choices now, on the assumption he won't give the queen back and you want more from that line. If you want a chance of honey this year, continue on the current plan. If you're not too worried about honey, make a split or two from the big colony if new queen cells have been made. Obviously you're not controlling their mating so it's a bit like roulette.

I'd probably also have a quiet word with the local association about what's gone on. Stick to the facts.

I'm not sure a random small colony that's possibly a swarm is a fair trade but it is better than nothing.

It’s not , your advice about speaking to the association brilliant .
I would of wanted a queen back and played my face it sounds like the chap in question is a kn++

 

[GaryH]

So mentor brought a nuc round ostensibly to replace my Q. More on this later
First we inspected my original colony. Lots of brood from the original Queen have now hatched out and there were plenty of bees. There were more than seven swarm cells along with the original that we previously ring fenced/ pinned. Two of which I thought looked better than the one we had marked one was capped. We destroyed them all (I’m not going to do this going forward because I’m going to harvest them)
Back to the nuc. When he opened the box the frames were full of sac brood. So obviously he’s took them away.
I’m looking at my original hive today to see if I have a virgin queen.
I guess then I leave it two weeks???

 

[North End Bees]

I’m looking at my original hive today to see if I have a virgin queen.
I guess then I leave it two weeks???

The QC is usually capped for 8 days before emergence. Now you know why your mentor should have left a younger cell so you can gauge timings!

You could probably leave it till the weekend to inspect as today would be the 5th day if capped last Sat. If capped a couple of days before you'd still be ok as she'll need a few days before mating flights.

You don't have to see the virgin, just check the QC is neatly opened.

 

[GaryH]

Thanks. I was going to see if she’s not out and take down other QCs. Is this the correct course of action?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

First we inspected my original colony. Lots of brood from the original Queen have now hatched out and there were plenty of bees. There were more than seven swarm cells along with the original that we previously ring fenced/ pinned

they would be emergency QCs made after the old queen was removed

I’m looking at my original hive today to see if I have a virgin queen.
I guess then I leave it two weeks???

Leave them alone, no need to hunt for the virgin - wait, for at least four weeks, there are times when doing nothing is the best thing.

 

[North End Bees]

Leave them alone, no need to hunt for the virgin - wait, for at least four weeks, there are times when doing nothing is the best thing.

Sometimes, but as the OP only has one colony he has no back up if the QC is a dud.
Well, except another dodgy colony from the mentor.
In 4 weeks, if no Q the bees will all be 4 weeks older (and wearing out having switched focus to nectar collection).

I think it's very reasonable to check this weekend and then leave them be.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think it's very reasonable to check this weekend and then leave them be.

and I think it's wiser not to - what on earth are you going to achieve, apart from disrupt a colony in a moment of flux?

 

[drex]

I can easily spot laying queens, Virgins are another matter. I am with JBM

 

[GaryH]

Thanks for the notes on this.
I’m afraid I’ve been impetuous and inspected the hive just now.
The first frame I lifted was the one with the QC on it marked with the pin
QC was still in tact ( no browning colour at the tip) the worker’s (nurse bees?) were attending it so I assumed it was still viable. It was like they were nibbling the end.
I checked the remaining frames, shaking the bees off as I went.
There were about 10 QCs one capped. Under instructions I have squished them all
Now what?
What if the QC ends up not being a viable one?
When will this queen emerge.
I really don’t like disturbing the hive unnecessarily.
PS the blackberries are out here in abundance

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Thanks for the notes on this.
I’m afraid I’ve been impetuous and inspected the hive just now.
The first frame I lifted was the one with the QC on it marked with the pin
QC was still in tact ( no browning colour at the tip) the worker’s (nurse bees?) were attending it so I assumed it was still viable. It was like they were nibbling the end.
I checked the remaining frames, shaking the bees off as I went.
There were about 10 QCs one capped. Under instructions I have squished them all
Now what?
What if the QC ends up not being a viable one?
When will this queen emerge.
I really don’t like disturbing the hive unnecessarily.
PS the blackberries are out here in abundance

Recognizing you're new to this game and eager but you really need to stop fiddling and sit back to think before diving in again. It's no good asking a question then taking bits of advice from everyone and his dog Listen to ONE experienced COMPETENT beekeeper who in this case is suggest is JBM. Fingers crossed the QC is viable and the emerged virgin mates successfully and doesn't end up inside a swallow.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Under instructions I have squished them all
Now what?

Provided you killed them all, the chosen QC will emerge and it'll be happy ever after.

Future ref: to be certain, it's better to remove QCs rather than squash because bees can repair damaged cells.

Now what?
What if

Anxiety is no substitute for patience, so wait. A virgin will emerge at 16 days, so work it out by estimating the age when you chose her.