Listening to your bees

[SimonP]

Hi there,

Have you ever thought your bees make a different noise when they are "stressed' or when they are about to swarm? In the 50's, a British BBC sound engineer set out to discover just that. Unfortunately the Apidictor was a commercial failure, but it did path the way for further research in to the area of audio analysis.

Recently, a company called Arnia approached us with a 21st century device for listening to the bees. Using modern technology, it is able to send information wirelessly to the users computer or mobile device updating the beekeeper with information such as Colony strength, colony size, presence of disease, likelihood of swarming along with others.

The device is currently going through testing in Dundee as part of the insect Pollinators Initiative. We would really appreciate your feedback on the device, please follow the link to find out more about the device and help us prove the validity of the technology.

 

[psafloyd]

It stands to reason that the noise is different. When you have the hive open and they start getting arsey about the brood getting chilled, you hear the difference. It's not simply about volume, I would have said. Of course, that's just using my lug holes and they are not 100% accurate...

 

[Poly Hive]

I have seen an Apidictor and it was tested at the North of Scotlands College of Agri at Craibstone and found to be pretty much a waste of time.

PH

 

[Headnavigator]

It stands to reason that the noise is different. When you have the hive open and they start getting arsey about the brood getting chilled, you hear the difference. It's not simply about volume, I would have said. Of course, that's just using my lug holes and they are not 100% accurate...

You're telling me it is! I've noted everything from what I'd describe as a 'faint warm hum' to an awful noise like a diesel train speeding through a station that one hive made, they were balling a queen on the ground just outside the hive, and it was a very loud and grating roar. I don't think I'll ever forget that noise. Obviously my own descriptions are very subjective but I think the different tones I've noted over the year will be helpful in gauging their moods in the future.

 

[CB008]

My wife is convinced that the bees make a different noise just before they sting you. Whilst I am very aware of the different noises that they make when you open them up, I cannot say I have noticed they make a different sound if they are about to sting. Has anyone else come across thsi notion

 

[Finman]

.
Bees produce many voices but they are not know what they mean.

Waste of time, as PH says.

What I understand is a bee surring in my haír. My idea is next "where there"

 

[Storm™]

This subject came up with the same references this time last year I think. Ill try and find the link. The audio was brilliant.

Yep several times in fact - http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/search.php?searchid=1076102

 

[Headnavigator]

This subject came up with the same references this time last year I think. Ill try and find the link. The audio was brilliant.

Yep several times in fact - http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/search.php?searchid=1076102

Hi Storm I can't get the link to work - what search term did you use pls?

 

[Storm™]

Hi Storm I can't get the link to work - what search term did you use pls?

Just search for Apidictor and the various threads come up plus the audio link is amongst them. Very interesting.

From memory I think the most interesting was the thread - the sound of swarming

more info here - http://tinyurl.com/cu73cxw

further reading on this search - http://tinyurl.com/d6wz97b

 

[Headnavigator]

Many thanks, Storm, I shall have a sit-down later and see what I can take on board!

 

[biglongdarren]

Tom D Seeley showed us a video last week of a hive about to swarm and he had the queen in a cage and some bees were running over the cage like mad piping to the her trying to get her to join them.
was all very interesting.
one of my hives the other day was making that crackling noise again that i talked about in another thread,it was that load i heard it as i was walking past the hive.
Darren

 

[Storm™]

Listen to E Woods talking about "sounds of the hive" - http://www.manxsouvenirs.com/Bees/Listen%20to%20your%20Bees.mp3

 

[SimonP]

It is well documented that the bees do make a plethora of different sounds. Using modern technology and specific algorithms, it is possible to alert beekeepers to different situations such as swarming. The Arnia device is able to alert to the possibility of swarming and possibly more interesting, alert to the possibility of disease in the hive such as varroa mites.

I don't know how many people here have a subscription to he BBKA magazine, but in the November issue, there was an article near the back which explains about the device and gives an opportunity to be entered in to a competition.

There is also a well known article named 'Listen to the bees' it can be found at this address Listen to the bees Its an interesting read and provides a bit of theory behind the new device.

 

[Finman]

to alert beekeepers to different situations such as swarming. ...]Its an interesting read and provides a bit of theory behind the new device.

When you look inside the hive and see queen cells, it tells that they are going to swarm.

That swarm sound detector is an old innovation.

 

[Poggle]

I have only been doing bee keeping since June BUT, I reckon I "know" five sounds the bees make. One is a definate "bugger of chum or else!!!!" One is a VERY definate "if were not in that suit, I would do you in!!" Another is "Oh heck!! It is him again, lets go see what he wants!" and "FOOD!!!!! " Then there was the very gentle "buzzing" sevaral hundered made one day when I went to feed them and they realised i was going to do no harm. I have posted it before but, I took the top of to feed syrup and a hundered or so came up with the "OI chum Bugger of or else!" hum, when I undid the bottle of syrup, the bees settled down, landed on me and the walls aroiund the hive, or just stayed gently flying back and forth with the gentle low buzz untill I put the lid on the feeder then the lid on the hive when it changed to what I call the "FOOD!!!" Buzz................Maybe I am imagining it all, maybe not. And I am sure there is a "pre swarm" buzz, a "during the swarm" buzz and an "after the swarm" buzz, both from the swarmees and the hive.

John

 

[Hivemaker.]

The Arnia device is able to alert to the possibility of swarming and possibly more interesting, alert to the possibility of disease in the hive such as varroa mites.

That will be good then,hope they can produce a cheap sensor which sends all info to a computer/mobile,no need for bee inspectors,and only go deal with the hives which are going to swarm, just before the time indicated in the info sent back.

 

[SimonP]

When you look inside the hive and see queen cells, it tells that they are going to swarm.

That swarm sound detector is an old innovation.

Looking inside the hive is the ideal situation, however as we all know, there are only so many hours in a day and not everybody keeps their hives in the back garden, they could be miles away, and distributed around the area, so checking for queen cells regularly may not be an option. This is where the device comes in.

The original swarm detector is an old invention, but technology has moved on and until now, no one else has produced a viable alternative.

Hivemaker, that is exactly the purpose of the device, to be a cheap, realistic alternative to bee monitoring. Until now, hives which are being monitored tend to have a laptop per hive with many cables. Th Arnia device allows you to log in to a web page and compare your hives, identify why one hive is producing more honey that another for example as well as be alerted via text or email that there is a hive that needs your attention.

 

[Chris Luck]

Simon, if that is your survey the first thing I notice is that you don't have "Never" as an inspection option, or once or twice a year for that matter, perhaps even when it seems necessary.

I'm very interested in understanding my colonies from the outside with what ever means, perhaps a rethink on the questionnaire?

Chris

 

[oliver90owner]

I almost liked this thread starter. At least it gave the late Eddie Woods a back-handed compliment - that of inventing the kit to take advantage of the sounds, even though was rather double edged saying it failed commercially. More like it was a little too far ahead of it's time and the available technology.

Pathing (or even 'paving') the way for future developments as technology improved - and I am not sure that it failed commercially (more like let down by the available hardware at the time. Couldn't have been such a failure if there are still units in use today.

If someone had given Eddie Woods the equivalent (then) of a hundred thousand pounds and a Uni full of students to progress and improve the concept, it may well, by now, have been marketed successfully or quietly left to decay on the shelf as past history.

The Arnia device has been hyped as 'recently invented' by these people but it does not even seem to be so, as they appear only to be joining up the 1950s invention with twenty-first century computing power., albeit possibly using far better transducers than back in the fifties.

Good luck to them, but I do hope the copyright has been passed to a succeeding relative of the real inventor. Somehow, I doubt it, but there.

I am with Finman and Hivemaker, in that I have a very good idea of whether a colony is likely to swarm imminently but do need to make regular observaions (that is what the device does?). Disturbing the colony every week is not the best recipe for swarming avoidance but a 'necessary evil' to pre-empt the event.

If technology is now advanced enough to detect these changes with a very high degree of success the commercial beekeepers will increase their productivity considerably. If only of mediochre precision or accuracy these modern day 'inventors' will need to do a great deal more 'inventive' work to make it a reliable commercial success. No doubt the test results will be far superior to everyday use in the field.

Clipping the queens seems a much cheaper alternative, and to be honest, the beekeeper only needs to recognise a swarm leaving in those circumstances, then toddling off with a replacement laying queen in his/her vehicle to replace that lost queen. Simple really.

Add in the ubiquitous load cell transducer and the beekeeper would know when a further super is required, or the flow at an out apiary is diminishing (in conjunction with prevailing meteorlogical conditions). Probably even tell the keeper when the bees (or the microprocessor system (or battery) has been nicked). Also likely to be an easy way for the low life to pin-point the locations of hives in the future.

I can hear it now - 95%+ of swarms were predicted (but without any mention of the 400% false alarms!) - I can likely do as well as that simply by having really strong stocks with restricted laying or storage space, sitting on a field of OSR that is rapidly diminishing as a forage crop. It is those last few colonies which I would miss as swarmers that I would be most interested in - the surprise swarmers.

Now I wonder whether the results are better if the hive is located on crossing ley lines???...

RAB

 

[Storm™]

Hi there,

Recently, a company called Arnia approached us with a 21st century device for listening to the bees. Using modern technology, it is able to send information wirelessly to the users computer or mobile device updating the beekeeper with information such as Colony strength, colony size, presence of disease, likelihood of swarming along with others.

The device is currently going through testing in Dundee as part of the insect Pollinators Initiative. We would really appreciate your feedback on the device, please follow the link to find out more about the device and help us prove the validity of the technology.

Thanks in advance for your comments

Simon/Steven Price who has invested in the technology and is part of the companies marketing team I presume...... "Dr Stephen Price, POC manager at Northstar, said: “Our investment will enable Arnia to continue the development of this technology and explore opportunities to commercialise and expand its range of products""


http://tinyurl.com/cst5qza