late swarm

[Angiey]

Hi again.
Posted before re late swarm. I am finally getting my nuc tonight but alas it is queenless. I have a mated Buckfast Queen Bee on its way to me by post today so should arrive in a couple of days. My question is should I introduce the queen when I transfer the nuc to hive in a couple of days when bees are used to their new surroundings or should I introduce the queen into the Nuc and leave for a few days and then transfer the colony and queen together.
Thanks

 

[Phil280]

Hi there.

I personally would put Queen to nuc and then transfer the lot after a while when the queen is laying.
What frames are ar in the nuc? Just foundation (bit late) or extracted comb - both fed with syrup - or extracted in the centre and honey filled comb at the sides (bruised)?

Greets
Phil

 

[Angiey]

Hi. The colony has been in the Nuc box for about 4 weeks now and owner says they are developing strongly. Being fed syrup. 5 frames with sides packed with newspaper No queen cells present

 

[Andre cardona]

can i ask how much waz the Buckfast Queen was thanks

 

[Angiey]

Sure. £35 plus postage Total less than £40

 

[Phil280]

Hi Angiey.

Developing strongly, no queen and no queen cells sounds controversial to me.

How did the owner figure out there was no queen in there?
If they have been in the nuc for 4 weeks and developing well the colony would have had eggs to rear a new queen if the old one had died.
Is it possible that the queen has just stopped laying for some reason or another? (That would be my guess)
Or has the owner taken the queen out?

Greets
Phil

 

[oliver90owner]

but alas it is queenless.

Are you absolutely sure? If not, and there is a queen there, your introduced queen will, almost certainly, be killed. A test frame, introduced for a day or two, is all important, here, before risking your new acquisition..

A poorer alternative might be to 'sieve' the bees through a queen excluder (not foolproof as some queens can get through them).

Regards, RAB

 

[drstitson]

agree with the above - a queenless hive or nuc CANNOT be described as developing well - especially after 4 weeks!!!

 

[Mike a]

agree with the above - a queenless hive or nuc CANNOT be described as developing well - especially after 4 weeks!!!

Until you are sure they are queenless don't put your new queen in with them or they will kill her. I suspect the swarm came with an unmated queen (cast) and she will be trying to go out on mating flights during the day weather permitting so inspect after 4pm.

 

[Nightynight]

he might mean they are filling the frames with stores/drawing comb well. Needs a queen asap mind

 

[drstitson]

can we clear up once and for all (ie both this and previous thread), whether the OP is referring to a true late swarm or is confusing terminology and has been given a late season nuc?

was this definitely a swarm (presume therefore a cast) caught at the time of your original thread which has been housed in a nuc in meantime?

 

[Angiey]

Hi all.
Thanks for replies. To clarify it is a swarm from the owners own hives. She has four and is an experienced beekeeper. She checked about 10 days ago for queen but could not find any and left them again until Friday past when checked again. Still could not find queen so advised I get a mated queen which I have done and it arrived this pm. I opened the hive myself today and to an unexperienced eye there is 10 frames in total inside an international broodbox. the middle five are full of drawn comb which some of it is capped. From what I understand a queen cell is raised and white in colour, (Is this correct) If yes then there is none to be seen. I am probably getting the terminology wrong!!!

How could I be absolutely sure there is no queen. Do I open hive again and scour the frames bearing in mind I do not have an experienced eye for spotting queens. Where would she likely be in the box? Thanks again
Also how long can I keep queen and attendents in cage pending finding the queen if there is one there.

 

[oliver90owner]

How could I be absolutely sure there is no queen.

From post #7: A test frame, introduced for a day or two, is all important, here, before risking your new acquisition.

 

[Angiey]

Hi Thanks for that Can you explain what a test frame is please? Sorry for all the questions

 

[susbees]

An unmated queen could be anywhere, a mated one likely in the brood nest unless oversmoked or nervy. If the weather has been dodgy a virgin (unmated ) queen could take a while to come into lay especially as fodder is tight in some areas now.

A raised dome cell is a drone ("male"), a queen cell hangs down like an unshelled peanut.

A test frame is a frame with eggs on from another hive (with same size frames). The bees if queenless will usually start making a queen cell or more....with experience you can see this in a day or two. It is usually then safe to add a queen in a cage.

 

[Andre cardona]

can you find some one to help you with this if you lived ner buy i would come good luck

 

[Angiey]

How long can I keep the queen and attendants in their transport cage?

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

She'll be alright for a few days. They may need some moisture so you can wet your finger and smear it across the cage, taking care not to drown them with droplets.

You should still have time for a test frame if you can get one and put it in quickly. If you cant get one (and folk may be reluctant this time of year to give one away), then I'd go for asking for help having a final search, and if still nothing taking a chance on introducing - again seek help on doing this carefully (eg releasing attendants, sealing over plug in cage for a day or so until you are sure she's not going to be balled immediately.

 

[Angiey]

Thanks ill have another l.ook tonight I will not be able to get a test frame so it looks like doing the best Ican in trying to spot any queen I will make sure igive her the best possible chance the queencame with specific instructions so I will follow them to the letter.

 

[Phil280]

Hi there.

What kind of cage is the queen in? The standard plastic cage with a food chamber that they work their way through to get out/in?
Like this?
Click here!

If so take the few workers that should also be in the cage out so that only the queen is in there and lay the cage on top of the frames for a while - weather permitting!
If you are able to tell aggressive from friendly behaviour against the queen you could use that as a vague indicator. I sometimes use this to check if the colony is ready for the newcomer.
The bees will then start feeding the queen or - if they are not to happy about her - start biting about.
If you are not sure you can wipe a bit of honey onto the cage before putting it into the colony. Don't forget to break out the little plastic cover on the end or they will not be able to work their way in.

I will keep my fingers crossed.

Greets
Phil