Late swarm... Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water

[italic63]

Hi from Italy...
So last weekend I removed a couple of supers with a small amount of honey in order to be able to treat for Varroa...
I added some 1:1 sugar syrup and cleared them back up. Ross morning they swarmed and all left. What the f...?
Any ideas why?
Thanks

 

[Erichalfbee]

What’s in the brood box ? Lots more info needed please n

 

[italic63]

A couple of frames of stores, patchy brood pattern on about 5 frames and no sign of swarm cells

 

[user 819]

When last did you look in the BB?
What wa the brrod state of affairs ?
Was there laying space ?
Did they actually need feed so soon ?
So many factors without knowing the colony in question.

 

[italic63]

I looked in the brood last Saturday. The brood pattern was not good. Looked like the Queen had slowed down and/or stopped laying. Plenty of space therefore. Having taken some of their residual honey in the super in order to treat, I thought that feeding them would help replace super stores.

 

[user 819]

It is possible from the patchy brood pattern that the varroa load has ravaged the colony and they have simply absconded to be rid of them.
You may need to add monitoring earlier or regularly during the spring/summer to keep an eye on varroa loads, a monthly sugar roll to assess mites loads.
Typically a tea cup of bees not a mug full (approx. 300 bees) and a t- spoon or two of icing sugar to gently roll them in (not shaking) for about 2 - 3mins . Release the bees then add water to dissolve the remaining sugar to count the mites left.
Here in the UK a commercial 3 in 1 varroa testeroll is sold by Abeelo company for about £20.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

not swarmed obviously - died off or absconded maybe

 

[user 819]

If they have absconded leaving no viable colony left then the issues with in the colony were severe , one can only conclude they were desperate. Either heavy varroa or associated virus's or starvation mode may have driven them on.

Are there any signs of high bee mortality in or outside of the hive ?

 

[user 819]

Can you post some clear nice pics of the patchy brood combs and the cells ?
Also some pics of the hive floor and area /ground in front of the hive ?

 

[italic63]

It is possible from the patchy brood pattern that the varroa load has ravaged the colony and they have simply absconded to be rid of them.
You may need to add monitoring earlier or regularly during the spring/summer to keep an eye on varroa loads, a monthly sugar roll to assess mites loads.
Typically a tea cup of bees not a mug full (approx. 300 bees) and a t- spoon or two of icing sugar to gently roll them in (not shaking) for about 2 - 3mins . Release the bees then add water to dissolve the remaining sugar to count the mites left.
Here in the UK a commercial 3 in 1 varroa testeroll is sold by Abeelo company for about £20.

Sounds likely and what you say makes sense. I forgot to mention that in this particular hive I noticed more than a few dead bees in the cover.

 

[italic63]

I will inspect and take photos this afternoon... Back soon

 

[user 819]

With varroa monitoring if one suspects or see's varroa load is high during the honey flows then the obvious quick treatment is to OA vape the colony, one can either remove the supers temporary (10 - 15 mins )to allow treatment or place newspaper between the brood and supers then treat with OA vape. The bees will chew thru the news paper after the vaping is finished.

All one has to do is to make sure the OA vapes don't affect the honey in the supers.

OA vapes take approx. 30 secs to 3mins to administer and then about 3 - 5 mins or so to allow the vape to settle and reform as chrystals with in the hive. Then one can replace the supers if moved, a good time to carry out may be early ot later when the bees aren't dumping forage straight in to empty brrod box cells.

 

[italic63]

Can you post some clear nice pics of the patchy brood combs and the cells ?
Also some pics of the hive floor and area /ground in front of the hive ?

Hi. Sorry for the delay. Heavy rain yesterday. Here are some pictures of the frames.
There are less than a hundred bees left. A few moths and a strange smell, a mixture of honey and yeast. They had eaten almost no syrup at all before they left. No sign of the Queen.
See pics.

 

[Ian123]

That’s not great and a very common sight with a heavy varroa load. When did you last treat.
I’d also flow test any sunken or slipper shaped larvae but suggest most looks chewed and the rest may be due to abandonment inc the funny smell.
In future you want to see a solid brood pattern during inspections anything else warrants investigation.
Given your milder climate and longer brood rearing I’d suggest a Winter and autumn treatment is essential speak to other beeks in your area and find out what they do.

 

[italic63]

That’s not great and a very common sight with a heavy varroa load. When did you last treat.
I’d also flow test any sunken or slipper shaped larvae but suggest most looks chewed and the rest may be due to abandonment inc the funny smell.
In future you want to see a solid brood pattern during inspections anything else warrants investigation.
Given your milder climate and longer brood rearing I’d suggest a Winter and autumn treatment is essential speak to other beeks in your area and find out what they do.

Ok thanks for the quick answer.
I treated the hive last autumn so a year ago. No wonder I guess...
What do you mean test or sunken larvae? Inspect for Varroa?
Thanks again

 

[Ian123]

Hi……. The picture of the frame with a small cluster of bees shows a couple of live bees with deformed wings a common trait with high levels of varroa. Also the spotty brood pattern and chewed pupae(well formed but colourless bees in the cell)
Just seeing those signs it’s a reasonable assumption that the colony had a high level that’s caused its collapse or absconding.
By test I was referring to the sunken inverted C shaped larvae visible in some cells in all likelihood due to a lack of care from muse bees. In the UK we have lateral flow type tests available that test for brood diseases, they are very similar to Covid tests kits I’m sure we are all familiar with!
This is only a precaution and I was just trying to cover all aspects when giving advice.
I would however burn those frames and give the boxes a scorch and clean before putting any new colony inside just to be safe.

 

[ericbeaumont]

flow test any sunken or slipper shaped larvae

Yes, 4th photo has melted larvae (sign of EFB) and a sunken capping (sign of AFB).

Lot of sac brood as well, probably opportunistic as the colony struggled with the overwhelming varroa load.

 

[ericbeaumont]

What do you mean test?

https://www.apistore.it/en/monitoring/1132-european-plague-diagnosis-kit-efb.html
https://www.apistore.it/en/monitoring/1131-american-plague-diagnosis-kit-afb.html

 

[user 819]

Any smell needs investigating and is associated with brood disease, you need to be careful and wash/sterilise all of your beekeeping kit . So beesuit, smoker , throw any gloves away, wash boots & hive tools . Carry fresh sterilise solution with you on every visit to quickly spray equipment between hives.
Here in the UK it is mandatory to inform the bee inspector if a severe brood disorder is seen and no moving around of hive kit.

Varroa have pushed the beesover the edge to cause them to abscond, Autumn treatment for varroa alone is not enough one needs to carry out a winter treatment or a one off OA vape to mnitor the mites over 24hrs.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

With varroa monitoring if one suspects or see's varroa load is high during the honey flows then the obvious quick treatment is to OA vape the colony, one can either remove the supers temporary (10 - 15 mins )to allow treatment or place newspaper between the brood and supers then treat with OA vape. The bees will chew thru the news paper after the vaping is finished.

All one has to do is to make sure the OA vapes don't affect the honey in the supers.

OA vapes take approx. 30 secs to 3mins to administer and then about 3 - 5 mins or so to allow the vape to settle and reform as chrystals with in the hive. Then one can replace the supers if moved, a good time to carry out may be early ot later when the bees aren't dumping forage straight in to empty brrod box cells.

As soon as you can see the white "smoke" emitted from the device it indicates the vapour is condensing back to crystals. Old style kettles used to enable you to see a clear space of true steam immediately after the spout. Then visible water vapor a short distance away. With a gas vap and a clear crown board a white "smoke" appears a short way from the pipe and a deposit can be seen settling on the top bars during the application.