Introduction and a question

[Beagle23]

Hi, hopefully some of the board veterans can give me a pointer or two.



I'm a new beekeeper. I've mostly muddled through the first 9 months with little drama and just a few stings.

I collected a NUC with 4 frames of very black British bees back in late April 2016. After two weeks in the NUC I transferred them to a Cedar hive purchased from Ebay. The colony grew at a steady pace and by the end of September there were 9 full frames of brood in the brood box and just under 2 frames of honey in the Super.

I reasoned that the 4-frame start for the colony had resulted in them being behind the game and that their focus had been on growing the colony rather than collecting food for the winter. I wasn't too concerned, I had no plans to take honey from the hive and I'd bought plenty of fondant to feed them over the winter.

For reasons that I don't recall I decided to remove the queen excluder in November essentially turning the hive into two brood boxes - wish I could remember my thinking.

I carried out a quick inspection last weekend and was pleased to see so many bees, two queens were present, no sign of parasites or disease. In fact I had a bit of a moment, content that I was looking after my bees and that they looked to be in good shape.



So I feel like things are going well, although I've been given an easy ride I expect.

My question - I have a new Super and I'm wondering at which point I should add it to the hive. I'm going to keep the original super as a makeshift 2nd brood box. I assume (I do a lot of assuming), that adding it before the weather improves will just make it harder for the bees to keep the hive warm.



Thanks



Steve

 

[Millet]

Hi, hopefully some of the board veterans can give me a pointer or two.



I'm a new beekeeper. I've mostly muddled through the first 9 months with little drama and just a few stings.

I collected a NUC with 4 frames of very black British bees back in late April 2016. After two weeks in the NUC I transferred them to a Cedar hive purchased from Ebay. The colony grew at a steady pace and by the end of September there were 9 full frames of brood in the brood box and just under 2 frames of honey in the Super.

I reasoned that the 4-frame start for the colony had resulted in them being behind the game and that their focus had been on growing the colony rather than collecting food for the winter. I wasn't too concerned, I had no plans to take honey from the hive and I'd bought plenty of fondant to feed them over the winter.

For reasons that I don't recall I decided to remove the queen excluder in November essentially turning the hive into two brood boxes - wish I could remember my thinking.

I carried out a quick inspection last weekend and was pleased to see so many bees, two queens were present, no sign of parasites or disease. In fact I had a bit of a moment, content that I was looking after my bees and that they looked to be in good shape.



So I feel like things are going well, although I've been given an easy ride I expect.

My question - I have a new Super and I'm wondering at which point I should add it to the hive. I'm going to keep the original super as a makeshift 2nd brood box. I assume (I do a lot of assuming), that adding it before the weather improves will just make it harder for the bees to keep the hive warm.



Thanks



Steve

From experience with my first colony which was also a Nuc they is little hope of getting a honey harvest in the first season, i think i ended up with around four frames in the super like yourself.

As for adding the second super, that does not need to go on until the first one is 2/3rds full, that is what i did last year but in the second super i only managed to get two frames of honey.

Also it might be wise for you to buy a second hive because this year your hive may well want to swarm, however someone should be along shortly to give you some more experienced advice.
Good Luck.

 

[Beagle23]

From experience with my first colony which was also a Nuc they is little hope of getting a honey harvest in the first season, i think i ended up with around four frames in the super like yourself.

As for adding the second super, that does not need to go on until the first one is 2/3rds full, that is what i did last year but in the second super i only managed to get two frames of honey.

Also it might be wise for you to buy a second hive because this year your hive may well want to swarm, however someone should be along shortly to give you some more experienced advice.
Good Luck.

Thanks for that. I probably didn't make it clear that my old super is now like a granny-annex to the brood box, and that I'll be capping that with a queen excluder and new super at some point (so I'll just have one super in the role of super - and 1 brood box + 1 super in the role of brood boxes) - this may have been a stupid thing to do.

I probably won't go for a second hive, but I do have a 5frame NUC on standby for swarms.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Millet is right about extra kit. You might well expect four supers on your hive at some point and the colony may well make swarm preparation and you will need a proper brood box. It sounds as if they are happy on brood and a half ( I am presuming your are on a standard National box) so you will not need a super for them to fill for you till there is brood solidly on 70% of the frames.
You have a classic supersedure where the bees replaced their queen late in the season and let her mother continue in the colony. If the bees are happy with her as they ramp up brooding she will disappear.
Good luck and let us know how things go

 

[Erichalfbee]

PS if the season goes well your 5 frame nucleus box will not be enough for swarm control.
I would not be hanging around waiting for a your hive to swarm and catch and hive. Sod's law you will miss them. There are ways of managing your colony so that you get the hive split before they go and you keep all the bees
Have a look here
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

 

[Nige.Coll]

Thanks for that. I probably didn't make it clear that my old super is now like a granny-annex to the brood box, and that I'll be capping that with a queen excluder and new super at some point (so I'll just have one super in the role of super - and 1 brood box + 1 super in the role of brood boxes) - this may have been a stupid thing to do.

I probably won't go for a second hive, but I do have a 5frame NUC on standby for swarms.

You have stumbled into brood and a half. Brood box + super as brood chamber.
It's not a great system to run, if they are British black bees they will be fine in just the brood box.

 

[Beagle23]

Thanks.
Only two posts in and I already feel out of my depth.

My plan for dealing with swarms was to just let them move along, I have no short-term plans to expand to more than one hive...............although, you have started the brain cogs whirring, and can certainly see the benefits of having more than one.

I'll try to do some reading on a brood and a half and may then try to reclaim the super for its original purpose, I'm not sure the queen has made use of it yet so it may be salvageable.

 

[Millet]

Thanks for that. I probably didn't make it clear that my old super is now like a granny-annex to the brood box, and that I'll be capping that with a queen excluder and new super at some point (so I'll just have one super in the role of super - and 1 brood box + 1 super in the role of brood boxes) - this may have been a stupid thing to do.

I probably won't go for a second hive, but I do have a 5frame NUC on standby for swarms.

I thought the same when i bought my first hive, i do have a habit of being over prepared though, i have three spare National hives and two spare Nucs that i made, even when the spare hive part are not getting used for bees they do come in handy for storing drawn out spare brood frames and extracted super frames.
Last year i would have been in a right pickle if i never had a spare Brood body when i had to do a artificial swarm and then reunite the two colonies over news paper after a Queen cell failed to emerge, i also had a second Queen cell fail to hatch which caused a laying worker, i will not go on about that but IMO from my experience a second hive is essential.

 

[Beagle23]

I thought the same when i bought my first hive, i do have a habit of being over prepared though, i have three spare National hives and two spare Nucs that i made, even when the spare hive part are not getting used for bees they do come in handy for storing drawn out spare brood frames and extracted super frames.
Last year i would have been in a right pickle if i never had a spare Brood body when i had to do a artificial swarm and then reunite the two colonies over news paper after a Queen cell failed to emerge, i also had a second Queen cell fail to hatch which caused a laying worker, i will not go on about that but IMO from my experience a second hive is essential.

OK, good advice I think. Thank you. I'll start to look into acquiring another brood box. But if 1 hive becomes 2 becomes 4 becomes 8 etc....I'm holding you responsible

 

[Millet]

OK, good advice I think. Thank you. I'll start to look into acquiring another brood box. But if 1 hive becomes 2 becomes 4 becomes 8 etc....I'm holding you responsible

 

[Fatbee]

I would advise that you start to think more like a bee so read up on their behaviour and you will see why keeping to one hive at all times will be tricky to do.

Removing the queen excluder was the right thing to do at the end of the season. In the winter if bees migrate up through the excluder who do you think won't be able to move up through the excluder? The queen of course.

Supersede - so them naturally replacing the queen is a good thing. They are better informed than the beekeeper.

So use the last few (potentially long) weeks of winter to read, read, and read more about why bees do what they do.

 

[alldigging]

I'm a new beekeeper.
I carried out a quick inspection last weekend and was pleased to see so many bees, two queens were present, no sign of parasites or disease. In fact I had a bit of a moment, content that I was looking after my bees and that they looked to be in good shape.

Last weekend was a bit early to be inspecting IMO. There's always a risk of damaging the queen during an inspection and at this time of year you'd then be dooming them.

You will need to read up about swarm control because otherwise you risk your bees becoming a nuisance to your neighbours.

http://www.wbka.com/library/library-documents/
There's some great swarm reading on there.

I will also at this point recommend the Haynes bee manual to you if you haven't already read it.

 

[Beagle23]

Thank you


Thank you


...and book ordered

 

[Tremyfro]

Don't worry about expanding during the summer months as you can always recombine them again in the winter. I started with two colonies...went up to ten...then down to five ...now at six. Which is where I wanted to be...although I expect to have nucs during the Spring to help control swarming....ha ha

 

[Beagle23]

Thanks Tremyfro.

Just because I'm curious, a couple of quick questions about bee neighbourlyness.

1) If you caught a swarm from a hive and set it up next door is there competition between the hives, would they rob each other? I'm guessing the focus of each bee is its mother and keeping her alive and that no affinity with the old hive exists?

2) If you have two different types of of honey bee living side by side does this lead to any additional complications. So would a Buckfast hive do as well next to a Black Bee colony as it would next to another Buckfast one?

 

[Poly Hive]

1. Is yes then no.

2. Not that I have ever experienced but it will play havoc with queen matings so not the best of plans.

PH

 

[Levitt53]

I was new to this last year but trust me you need to have a minimum of two colonies. Mine swarmed as soon as I got them then I managed to leave them queenless in my inexperience. However borrowing a frame of eggs from my other hive saved the day. With only one hive you don't have many options.

 

[Millet]

A rule of thumb i will stick by is every full hive needs a empty spare one, however i will draw the line with five full and five empty..lol

 

[Erichalfbee]

A rule of thumb i will stick by is every full hive needs a empty spare one, however i will draw the line with five full and five empty..lol

I'm a lost cause then.........sigh!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

OK, good advice I think. Thank you. I'll start to look into acquiring another brood box. But if 1 hive becomes 2 becomes 4 becomes 8 etc....I'm holding you responsible

It will. The only variable is how soon

Now is the time to be planning to go to the local beekeepers auctions where you can obtain "stuff" exceeding cheap. Just be cautious what you buy and don't get into a bidding frenzy. Consider any used equipment as potentially infected and sterilise before use.