Introducing a new queen to poss DLQ hive

[SireeDubs]

GSome opinions would be welcome....

I have a hive which became q- in mid April. There was a qc, and I left them to it, but have never seen a new queen. Now I have either laying workers, or, more probably, a DLQ (the weather for 2-3 weeks following approx emergence date was awful). Pattern would dictate DLQ, but still can't find her if so.

Question now is whether I attempt requeening. If I can't find a queen, then would my best option be to shake out (at distance or in front of my other hive?) and cut my losses, or do a simple unite? Don't want to lose the colony if at all possible, as I only have two, but not sure how successful a new queen intro would be.

There is brood, if only drone, so presumably, they may accept a queen if I managed to get to the introduction stage... Or do I need young females to help with the queen?

Sorry if I've missed detail...

 

[snelgrove]

if queenless since mid April I would imagine the colony will be very weak with old bees. I am afraid in my opinion colony is doomed. shake in front of a strong colony and let them sort themselves out.if you definitely want not to reduce your hive number then you could reduce to a nuc box and introduce a mated queen but first removing old queen

 

[domino]

If you have drone laying bees isn't there a risk to introducing them into a Q+ hive?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you have drone laying bees isn't there a risk to introducing them into a Q+ hive?

Yes - as far as the bees are concerned they have a laying bee in the hive - any attempts at introducing a new queen are doomed.
Firstly are they laying workers not DLQ - If a queen the laying pattern would still be consistent and even, workers just tend to lay here there and everywhere so the brood becomes more patchy, workers can't get to the bottom of the cell so the eggs would be laid on the side and you would find multiple eggs in cells
If it is a DLQ then you need to find the queen before attempting introduction of a new one.
What I would do is make up a nuc with a couple of frames of emerging brood from the other hive, some empty comb and stores and a few hours later introduce the new queen. When she's out and laying I would then shake out the DLQ/LW hive in front of the other two

 

[SireeDubs]

Thanks all. Much appreciated. I'm seeing a regular pattern, eggs in bottom and single, rather than multiples. So, yes, I think DLQ. Bugger.

So to find her... Thought I had good eyes,but this is a tricky lark.

Thanks again for advice. Will ready the nuc!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks all. Much appreciated. I'm seeing a regular pattern, eggs in bottom and single, rather than multiples. So, yes, I think DLQ. Bugger.

So to find her... Thought I had good eyes,but this is a tricky lark.

Thanks again for advice. Will ready the nuc!

well either make up a nuc orfind and kill the DLQ, add a frame of emerging brood then introduce a new queen in her cage on that frame.

 

[Arfermo]

Ted Hooper in his book recommends what Snelgrove suggests. If you hope to save the colony you need to be sure what you have – dlq or laying worker(s). First of all look for eggs in cells. If the eggs are from a queen they will almost invariably be single ones at the bottom of the cells (and infertile, hence loads of drone larvae) but if you have laying workers there are usually multiple eggs in a cell and some up the sides as the layers thorax is too short to reach the bottom (and again even more drone larvae). If dlq, squish her and requeen, say, 24 hrs later. If laying workers – hopeless. Had one myself yesterday, shook them out on the ground well away from any hive and doused with a hose just in case flying/laying workers got accepted elsewhere. Then split a colony that was in swarm mood and requeened the Q- part this evening. Did the same with another colony last week and Q doing really well.

 

[Chris B]

If you can get rid of the old queen you have options.

If you can't find her the only thing to do is chuck them out and let them boost your other colony, and once things have settled, make yourself a replacement nuc. But in all honesty this is probably the best option anyway.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

To help locate a DLQ, shake the bees from each frame into an empty brood box on the hive floor. Place a queen excluder on top and then the brood frames in a brood box on top of that. After a few hours, the bees will have migrated to the brood box leaving drones and hopefully the queen below the queen excluder. If she's unmated, she may not be too big - look for long legs.

 

[tudorcd]

If you can't find the DLQ is there any reason why you don't introduce a cell and some emerging brood ?
And the virgin dispose of the incumbent queen
Thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you can't find the DLQ is there any reason why you don't introduce a cell and some emerging brood ?
And the virgin dispose of the incumbent queen
Thanks.

Yes - either the incumbent queen will dispose of the cell before the virgin emerges, or the bees will as they already have a laying queen - so why would they rear a new one

 

[tudorcd]

Requeening with protected cells is standard, bees don't react to the virgin queen who kills the incumbent, vq gets mated and takes over.
Quite different from sorting out laying workers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Quite different from proper beekeeping by the sounds of it.
a bit like like stand back cross fingers and hope for the best beekeeping

 

[tudorcd]

Jbm your post 11 is quite wrong, so how can my approach be regarded as anything but usual beekeeping.
Do you understand the principle of a protected queen cell from a breeder of good queens ? And a vq being ignored by bees until she is mated ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Did you mention a protected QC in your first post? no!
This is a beginner's section, a lot haven't got the hang of the basics yet so ambiguous posts alluding to non standard practices here are bound to confuse.
And are you saying the VQ always kills the DLQ?

 

[tudorcd]

No reply.