Intro & are qcells always capped before swarming?

[ellypatt]

Hello,

I have been lurking for a while and thought, seeing as I am in want of advice, that it was time to introduce myself.

In 2008 my family and I gave my mother a nucleus for her 60th birthday, and although she initially muttered "I'm sure I said I wanted white mice", she's been enjoying the beekeeping ever since.

This year she offered me one of her hives, which I took over in mid-March. The first time I visited it it was in the process of swarming. After inspection I left two queen cells and subsequently lost a cast (lesson learned!). It's a big, strong colony that seems quite narky, on brood and a half.

When I went to see it last Friday 17th I found primed queen cells in the top half of the brood. I destroyed these and assumed there would be more in the main brood so didn't go any further, and started to read up on how to do and A/s, not to mention wait for some decent weather.

We keep our bees in a local convent's grounds, and today the gardener called round to say there was a swarm on a tree. Having caught it I went back to my suspect big hive for a look. What I found was 3 queen cells, two of which were primed and one of which had a larvae in and was close to being, but not yet, capped.

It was quite a big swarm and there seemed to me to be fewer flying bees in the hive.

So, my question is, do queens ever leave with a swarm with the queen cells not yet capped? Or have I got it all wrong and the swarm is probably from another hive, and I should still go ahead and do an A/S with this hive?

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Elly (Oxford)

 

[plumberman]

Occam's razor: in other words I would look for the simplest explanation that explains the facts: the swarm is from your hive.

They don't follow rules, and won't always wait for a QC to be sealed.

I would remove all QC's except for the one with the larvae present and let them get on with it.

 

[Bees Plus]

Swarms - anything is possible with bees.

I have seen hives swarm just for fun!
Serious - in my garden apiary the hives were close, one swarmed while I watched them they all got in on the act. The cluster was so big it bent the branch over and touched the ground!! I left them to get a cup of tea and when I came back the cluster had reduced to a more normal size.

 

[richardbees]

elly

"there seemed to me to be fewer flying bees in the hive."

yes, the swarm came from your hive. The minute you see a Q cell you have to go through the brood area with a fine tooth comb to stay on top of the game.

I agree with plumber...

Richard

 

[Steve Dyer]

My neighbours bees swarmed yesterday. Flew about, couldn't find a queen and went back home. I noticed a bunch of bees on the ground outside the hive, picked them up in a box and sure enough virgin queen there. Opened the hive, found old queen in residence and about ten queen cells with about five days to emergence and one opened.
I suspect they decided to supercede, and then a few days later decided to swarm. Why can't they behave like in the books? - They now have old and new queens in the hive and no other queen cells. Time will tell...

 

[Polyanwood]

Does that sound like supersedure? You would expect one or two QCS only wouldn't you? I think leaving the 2 queens is high risk for swarming. Of course the virgin may kill the old queen instead, but she may get damaged in the process.

I would either have removed the old queen or split them.

 

[Chris B]

No they don't always wait for capped queen cells before swarming. It's just a rough guide for beekeepers based on what normally happens.

 

[Midland Beek]

I don't leave two queen cells, only one. But if you leave two and the first-out queen leaves with a swarm, at least you know there is very probably one good queen left behind.

In my mind, bees will not swarm unless there is at least one sealed-over queen cell in the hive. So, maybe you missed a sealed queen cell. maybe it was even hidden away in the supers after the queen squeezed through the queen excluder.

I spent a good while scratching my head a couple of weeks ago after the unexpected appearance of two swarms in my apiary. I am now absolutely sure that they did not come from my bees; there is another apiary about half a mile away. I think an apiary can attract swarms.

 

[Andre cardona]

apiary do attract swarms i had one last mouth a nice prime swarm