Insulation and broodlessness

[user 20297]

I'm realising there's at least one Catch 22 in keeping the bees warm in winter. The warmer they are, the more likely it is that the broodless period will be short or non existent.
I'm torn on this because it seems advantageous that the colony should keep topping up its numbers, but that gives varroa the same advantage.
On balance, I like to think that a high level of insulation has so many other benefits including increased humidity which possibly ******* the advance of varroa and a generic feeling that most creatures are healthiest when kept warm, that I'm sticking with it.
I'm sure there are plenty of opinions on this, ranging from. the opposite end of the spectrum to keepers who successfully overwinter in cold, wooden hives. But I'm interested to know how o.a.v. afficianados feel about this.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't think the amount of insulation (or the lack of it) has that much effect on their broodless cycle.
If I look out of the window of my snug centrally heated study in the middle of December and see it's snowing I wouldn't then go out the garden and weed the cabbages in my tee shirt, shorts and sandals

 

[user 20297]

I don't think the amount of insulation (or the lack of it) has that much effect on their broodless cycle.
If I look out of the window of my snug centrally heated study in the middle of December and see it's snowing I wouldn't then go out the garden and weed the cabbages in my tee shirt, shorts and sandals

Quite But given the opportunity and ability, in those circumstances and with a warm bed, some people might engage in the act of brooding!

 

[Erichalfbee]

I insulate all my hives. At first inspection there is never that much brood that I suspect they’ve been at it all winter. I keep my inspection trays in too and there’s not often much evidence of brood rearing till the spring.
I discovered insulation when I joined the forum and very quickly stumbled on poly too, so I’ve only ever kept bees in “cold” hives for one season.

 

[Erichalfbee]

And I keep bees of all colours and even the hardy black bees do better cosseted. I’m comparing these to my neighbours bees.

 

[pargyle]

I insulate all my hives. At first inspection there is never that much brood that I suspect they’ve been at it all winter. I keep my inspection trays in too and there’s not often much evidence of brood rearing till the spring.
I discovered insulation when I joined the forum and very quickly stumbled on poly too, so I’ve only ever kept bees in “cold” hives for one season.

And I keep bees of all colours and even the hardy black bees do better cosseted. I’m comparing these to my neighbours bees.

Exactly .... I discovered insulation and subsequently discovered this forum ... So. I've never had cold hives ... it's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Gunner]

I tend to find the broodless period goes more by the daylight hours rather than ambient temperature. The week before the shortest day is nearly always broodless in my area.

 

[Ian123]

Just to add to the confusion insulation in many cases actually delays the start of brood rearing. In fact wooden/un-insulated hives will often start earlier, as others above it’s not an issue there’s other factors at play.

 

[pargyle]

Just to add to the confusion insulation in many cases actually delays the start of brood rearing. In fact wooden/un-insulated hives will often start earlier, as others above it’s not an issue there’s other factors at play.

I don't know whether that is always the case .... my experience with poly hives compared to timber, uninsulated, hives used by other people in my area is that my bees do tend to fly when other bees are still clustered and the build up appears to start earlier. It's something that I don't have empiric research to support but I know that other users of well insulated poly hives have the same view.

There's an interesting critique of Poly hives here ...

https://www.beehivesupplies.co.uk/PDF/Polystyrene Beehives Key Facts.pdf

 

[rolande]

Going back a few years I did a series of winter inspections over a few years. Basically it was a case of selecting a few colonies at random in the autumn and then following them through the winter. Never found healthy colonies brooless before Christmas in our south coast locations, just after. Early January was the time with zero brood, this would actually make perfect sense if it's driven by light quality - brooless just after the shortest day. I'm at the opposite end of our Isles to @Beebe but I'd still hazard a guess, and that's all it is, that colonies simply aren't brooodless half as long as we've been taught but of course, you need to bight the bullet and have a look for yourself to confirm or not, something most people will choose not to do and I can fully understand that because it's hard to go against old doctrine.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You don't need to open them up - just use the inspection tray for, errr inspection - it will tell you after a few days whether they're brooding or not

 

[rolande]

Yes, but whatever the preferred method is it still requires an amount of effort on the beekeeper's part. But much easier for many to take someone elses word about what's going on because they were told about it by an expert who'd read it in a book written by someone who hadn't looked for himself. Hence the ongoing dearth of experience based knowledge.

 

[alancooper]

We have an extremely mild climate here in West Fermanagh - my bees are still bringing in pollen loads. I will may start a time series of brood inspections this week - regional, direct observationalbeit with some increased colony risk. Does anyone else do this?
Normally I would OA treat after the first spell of cold weather, usually before the winter solstice.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I will may start a time series of brood inspections this week - regional, direct observationalbeit with some increased colony risk. Does anyone else do this?

Nope - to what purpose?

 

[user 20297]

You don't need to open them up - just use the inspection tray for, errr inspection - it will tell you after a few days whether they're brooding or not

A lack of shredded cappings woudn't necessarily mean there were no eggs or unsealed larvae.

 

[drex]

No it wouldn't but the mites only dive into the cells just before capping, so would still be available to the effects of OA

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

A lack of shredded cappings woudn't necessarily mean there were no eggs or unsealed larvae.

but we are just talking about finding out if they're brooding or not, there will be cappings at some point in the brood cycle shurely?

 

[user 20297]

but we are just talking about finding out if they're brooding or not, there will be cappings at some point in the brood cycle shurely?

On the optimal day of the year, when no or the minimum brood are present, the inspection tray having been clean the day before, no or minimal cappings will be present;. But what I'm getting at is that I've heard from some people that the window of opportunity for that period is greatly reduced with increasing insulation. It also gives more continuity for varroa to increase and reduced opportunities for effective vaping.

The conundrum is that if that is the case, it has to be weighed up against the advantage to be gained by regular new bees in the winter.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But why is this such an issue? just keep on top of your varroa treatments and it will be fine.

 

[user 20297]

It's not, I will.

In one brief sentence and then I'll shut up........some people seem to like the idea of extended periods of broodlessness, so maybe you get more winter reproduction of varroa in an insulated hive?