Insulating a hive

[Ginger19]

In an effort to help the dwindling colony that I have acquired, I insulated the hive at the weekend. Firstly I put a floor in and secondly I wrapped it in bubble wrap, tucking it underneath and into the lid.
So now I am sat here thinking is it possible to suffocate them and will the lack of airflow result in condensation/damp occurring! The only air in is via the part closed front door but there is no chance of air passing through.

Have I overdone it? It is due to warm up a bit at the weekend, time to unwrap?
Opinions please!
Ginger

 

[Outlander]

From what I have read on the forum in recent times is that bubble rap does not offer much in the form of insulation and it can cause damp between the hive and the rap its self.

Kingspan or similar should be used on top of CB in the roof space. If small colony should have been dummied down so less space to heat. I myself would not block the underneath up as you have already pointed out it may condense too much.

Try to insulate the roof space and feed fondant if needed on top of CB and hope for the best.

 

[user 6228]

if its wood then 25mm of kingspan in the roof

 

[Erichalfbee]

Agree with Kingspan or suchlike.
Check the floor regularly if it's not damp then ventilation is OK

 

[BeeJayBee]

The only air in is via the part closed front door but there is no chance of air passing through.

Have I overdone it? It is due to warm up a bit at the weekend, time to unwrap?
Opinions please!

Plenty of people overwinter their bees in solid floor hives with only a reduced entrance for ventilation.

We used bubble wrap in our wooden hives last January, we also tied some kingspan round the outside and both inside and on top of the roof. It might not have done much good, but it didn't seem to do any harm. We tilted the hives very slightly forwards, by putting a batten beneath the back of each hive, so if there was any dripping condensation it was less likely to land on any bees and could drain through the entrance.

If you keep messing with them I think there's a good chance you'll disturb them once too often, so it might be a time to sit on your hands with your fingers firmly crossed.

 

[Skyhook]

I think you may be keeping the damp in. My preferred method is-

25 (or 50)mm Kingspan on the crownboard- cut to go inside the rim if it has one.

For a small colony, 25mm kingspan cut to fit inside the recesses in the front and back of the BB (or sides if you are warm way).

Entrance reduced to say 50 x 8mm

Floor out to allow condensation to drip away- but you can block off the slot where it goes, to prevent a draught. I've just got bits of wood tacked in place with panel pins.

If you must have the floor in, make sure the hive slopes slightly so water can run off- but I would take it out.

And before someone says open it partially, it then catches the rain and directs it into the hive, you would need a cut-down one.

.

 

[itma]

In an effort to help the dwindling colony that I have acquired, I insulated the hive at the weekend. Firstly I put a floor in and secondly I wrapped it in bubble wrap, tucking it underneath and into the lid.
So now I am sat here thinking is it possible to suffocate them and will the lack of airflow result in condensation/damp occurring! The only air in is via the part closed front door but there is no chance of air passing through.

Have I overdone it? It is due to warm up a bit at the weekend, time to unwrap?
Opinions please!
Ginger

Its very unlikely you could suffocate them.
In midsummer, lack of ventilation (or escape) can overheat and thus kill bees.
But not now.

Bubblewrap is poor insulation material - compared to proper stuff like the building insulation board referred to (brandnames include Kingspan, Celotex and Xtratherm).
And not being porous, it will get condensation inside (if only from the wet wood), ultimately leading to mould. Not good, but not a panic.

Next week, when its a bit warmer, fill any empty space in the hive - to reduce the draughty volume that the bees are in. A "divider board" fitting tight to the sides and crownboard would be ideal - especially if made from insulation board. A dummy board with behind it a bin bag of plastic packaging popcorn would be better than nothing.
Check and if needed add some fondant onto the frame topbars before replacing the crownboard (and covering any holes in the crownboard).
Then put insulation board on top of the crown board. Its about the best you can do simply for a wooden hive. If the roof sides don't cover it nicely, you may need to trim down the size of the board to fit inside a super (or inside an eke if you have one).

 

[drex]

With regard to insulation I agree with those who have suggested Kingspan etc over crownboard.

In a natural nest in a tree the wood fibres on the inside if the nest act to wick water away from the bees. This will occur in a wooden hive unless you have sealed the outer surface with non porous paint or waterproofer or wrapped it in plastic! Take bubble wrap off.

In your first post you say the colony is dwindling. The important question is why? I do sometimes use a cut down varroa board to close off part of the OMF. Makes me feel better at least.

I would only open them up again ( for example to dummy down) as a last resort and if it got much warmer.

 

[madasafish]

It's ironic the poster is in Cumbria and most of the replies are from the sunny south!

Bubble wrap encourages condensation as do wooden floors.

Celotex or Kingspan under the crown board is the way to go. Rediuced hive entrance.

Want to do more? In warmer dry weather attach insulation board to walls. Paint. But it would have to be a permanent solution.

In my view unless the colony is short of food investigating it just now is likely to hasten its demise.

I write as one with fully insulated TBHs (roof, walls and floor) . Venitlated boarded OMF floors..

 

[user 6228]

With regard to insulation I agree with those who have suggested Kingspan etc over crownboard.

In a natural nest in a tree the wood fibres on the inside if the nest act to wick water away from the bees.

how do the fibres achieve that with the inside surface of the nest covered in propolis?

 

[Moggs]

The condition and size of the colony is significant. Healthy bees in sufficient number, adequately fed, will keep warm, given optimum conditions.

Poor health, few bees, no feeding and your dwindling colony will become an ex-colony.

On the subject of insulation and such-like, I would have opted for a poly-nuc earlier in the season but you have missed that opportunity, unless you want to chance a significant risk.

How many frames of bees and why/ how are they "dwindling"?

 

[Little John]

And before someone says open it partially, it then catches the rain and directs it into the hive, you would need a cut-down one.

Or lean a 'snow board' against the back of the hive - to keep the rain off the drawer. 'Tis what I do.

LJ

 

[richardbees]

"encourages condensation as do wooden floors"

I really don't think so!!

itma offers good advice i.e. as soon as you get a mildish day, open up and reduce interior empty space.

 

[Ginger19]

Thanks to you all for your advice. I have decided that I will remove the bubble wrap on Sunday when it is expected to warm up, add some Kingspan above the crown board. I would like to keep the floor in for now as I only just added it and want to monitor VM drop.

I think I have missed the boat with regards to reducing the size internally as I don't want to bother them anymore.
I can't say why the colony is reduced, I have only had them for a couple of months - the chap that had them was having bad reactions to stings and so was keeping his distance I think. I bought the equipment and the remaining colony was down to 2 frames when we moved them. They are not expected to survive - but I am doing what I can!

 

[rockdoc]

I agree with the comments regarding bubble wrap for insulation. I only use a strip just wide enough to cover the sides of the hive to deter the woodpeckers. I also put spacers to lift it slightly away from the hive walls to allow a little air between them.

 

[BobsBees]

Dwindle due to varroa?

Hi Ginger19, I wonder if the previous owner treated for Varroa last Autumn?
If you can get rid of the remaining varroa NOW it might give the girls a better chance when the queen starts laying soon. But it sounds like its too late already. Just a thought while its still cold. You still could use Oxalic acid.
Bob.

 

[Ginger19]

Bob, I can't be sure on the Verroa treatment. Unfortunately the previous owner died. I have thought about Oxalic acid but am worried it might finish them off!

 

[Amari]

I was today pleased to find a thick layer of frozen snow on the metal roofs of 6 of my hives. This snow has been there more than a week suggesting that there is very little heat escaping, maybe because for the first time in 40 years beeking, persuaded by Forumite opinion, I inserted Recticel (prob similar to KS) insulation under each roof. Interestingly the snow on the poly-roof of my only polyhive has all melted.

 

[itma]

... Interestingly the snow on the poly-roof of my only polyhive has all melted.

I think Pains roof is too thin.
Its thinner than the walls. Not right!
So under the roof, I've got a poly super with some Celotex giving me a much better insulated crownboard.


I suspect that the much more expensive (and IMHO better looking) poly roof from the Cornish supplier is 1/ adequately insulated and 2/ should fit over Pains boxes (as they are also 500mm square externally) - anyone actually tried?

 

[ultreen1]

I've got a poly super with some Celotex giving me a much better insulated crownboard.

I've done that on my pains


I suspect that the much more expensive (and IMHO better looking) poly roof from the Cornish supplier

I must say I love the look of the pains polly! Prob at odds with most but I picked the pains over all others due to its looks!