inspection done, no queen & some queen cells. what next!

[irishguy]

What are the chances of getting honey now this season or is it now just a case of trying to hold onto my colonies

 

[irishguy]

hi all.
Im the guy who supplied the nucs. today i looked through the two hives. both are coming along well and both are very strong for the amount of boxes given to them (single brood each one with a super).
one swarmed 3-4 days ago at a guess. this is based on lack of queen eggs or any larvae younger than 4 days old. ie nothing i would use for a graft.
the other hive is preparing to swarm the queen and one frame of brood have been removed and given the original site and the one super. (no queen cells on frame.)

the remaining hive has been moved to another stand in the apiary and the flying bees should leave it tomoro and the next day. the queen cells havnt been culled down to one.

for the hive that has already swarmed i have suggested either of three solutions.
either preform an AS using a queen cell as the queen or take a nuc from it or reduce down to one queen cell.

both queens are last autums queens and were marked and clipped. had a look in the grass for the swarmed queen but no sign.

Cheers Newport. I got in contact with the guy I gave hive to and he's going to get it back in the morning g if there's no bees in it yet. If not, I'm going to make one in the morning and hopefully do 1 of the suggestions you said above. What one will produce honey and what will give me 2 hives out of what you suggest.

Cheers again for calling out

 

[newportbuzz]

Cheers Newport. I got in contact with the guy I gave hive to and he's going to get it back in the morning g if there's no bees in it yet. If not, I'm going to make one in the morning and hopefully do 1 of the suggestions you said above. What one will produce honey and what will give me 2 hives out of what you suggest.

Cheers again for calling out

with whats left of the swarmed hive. best for honey would be knock down surplus queen cells to one picked one.(books say use an opened one. it costs you a few days but its worth doing in your case as there are a good few. pick one that isnt on a drone frame if you can. less chance of it being a dud. also DONT shake that cell.

best for 2 hives in my opinion is take a nuc from it.

you could also run an apidea or something similar with a cell or two to hedge your bets of mating. that would alow you to make a late split to get another hive after the main flow.

u got my number if theres any hassle.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Regarding the swarmed hive.....why split a colony that has already lost half its bees?
You also need to look up how to complete your artificial swarm. As the queen cells haven't been reduced (how many are left?) you will lose more bees unless you do something about it.

 

[irishguy]

Regarding the swarmed hive.....why split a colony that has already lost half its bees?
You also need to look up how to complete your artificial swarm. As the queen cells haven't been reduced (how many are left?) you will lose more bees unless you do something about it.

IMO, I don't think its lost half of it bees. It still looks like the colony has grew since my last visits.


When you say I'll lose more bees unless I do something about it. What would you suggest.

 

[REDWOOD]

But will diminish over the next 4-6 weeks, loose a cast and you have a job on your hands building them up for the winter

 

[Putnamsmif]

Personally I think Beginners' Courses should be re-named Pre-Beekeeping Courses, and the Intermediate - or whatever it is the respective Associations call the next step - should be the Beginners course. My beginners course was excellent, and I appreciate all the hard - unpaid - work those running it put in, but - at the risk of sounding big-headed - I knew most of it from Hooper and various other books I had read. What would have been better is a course which actually physically showed me queen cells, showed me how to A/S a hive etc. That, IMHO, is what really would have stood me in good stead for my first and second years. And I know the mentorship program is there for that, but even so, mentors aren't always available, and there is no better way to learn than actually doing something yourself.

 

[Finman]

.
a normal case...
- queen cells
- no eggs, clipped queen is gone when it tried to swarm

Next:
- you must cut the swarming fever with AS
- you use in AS queen cell when you do not have the queen
- do AS to foundations. It kills best the swarming fever.

 

[irishguy]

Personally I think Beginners' Courses should be re-named Pre-Beekeeping Courses, and the Intermediate - or whatever it is the respective Associations call the next step - should be the Beginners course. My beginners course was excellent, and I appreciate all the hard - unpaid - work those running it put in, but - at the risk of sounding big-headed - I knew most of it from Hooper and various other books I had read. What would have been better is a course which actually physically showed me queen cells, showed me how to A/S a hive etc. That, IMHO, is what really would have stood me in good stead for my first and second years. And I know the mentorship program is there for that, but even so, mentors aren't always available, and there is no better way to learn than actually doing something yourself.

I would agree with you. I took the beginners course but I knew all of it with the reading I done in book I have and some reading on the net. Insaying that thou, others at the course probably learnt out of it.

As for my problems, I wasn't really expecting any swarms untill next year seeing as the queens are oonly 8 months old. I was thinking these 2 overwintered nucs would have gave me a nice amount of honey in my first year, looks like thats not going to be the case

 

[irishguy]

.
a normal case...
- queen cells
- no eggs, clipped queen is gone when it tried to swarm

Next:
- you must cut the swarming fever with AS
- you use in AS queen cell when you do not have the queen
- do AS to foundations. It kills best the swarming fever.

So what I do is put the New hive in place of the old with moving the old one a few meters away. Lift one frame with queen cell into the new hive and let it A/S. This will bring half the bees back to the original location and half will stay in the full hive. I will leave all queen cells in the full hive with brood, larvae etc.., let them hatch and I'll have 2 hives. Will I feed the hive with empty foundation.

 

[Erichalfbee]

IMO, I don't think its lost half of it bees. It still looks like the colony has grew since my last visits.

You're right, of course. The queen was clipped so bees would have gone back.

 

[Ely]

Most courses are very good for helping make the desicion of whether you want to be a beekeeper and see whether being surrounded by bees is OK for you but they do very little of teaching you to be a beekeeper. Not in depth enough and it comes with time.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

preform an AS using a queen cell as the queen

You need a queen to do an A/S so what's the point

the queen cells havnt been culled down to one.

Why not? or do you want the hive to throw casts until it's unviable?

Is it me or is thee a full moon or something or maybe the solstice is playng up with the humours

 

[newportbuzz]

You need a queen to do an A/S so what's the point


Why not? or do you want the hive to throw casts until it's unviable?

Is it me or is thee a full moon or something or maybe the solstice is playng up with the humours

why would it produce casts? it has lost its flying bees. first cell should be due to emerge in the next two days at a rough guess even sooner if i am wrong. and they have more space than they had.
i fail to see the stimulus to produce a cast.

also you can preform an AS on a queen cell or a virgin for that matter. i have done it myself on the odd occasion i have had to or have needed to mop up flying bees.

 

[oliver90owner]

I've given up on this thread.

Two different hives being considered, two different scenarios, one A/S, one not an A/S. Ond queen cell, lots of queen cells, all cells knocked down, hives moved several metres away for an A/S - whatever next!

Analogies to pilots that do a beginner course and go off flying fast jets without any exam or certificate of competency whatsoever. Beginner courses likened to what you can read up yourself (and should) at virtually zero cost, so clearly aimed at those that cannot read or simply to raise funds for, or the profile of, the BKA. You don't fly an aeroplane just by being present at a course. There is a lot of other work to do between the class sessions. Even then the budding pilot would not get their licence if every landing was so heavy it damaged the undercarriage! But a good analogy to demonstrate the technical worth of a course, to someone who thinks that is all they need to do - just turn up. Learn how to land after crashing the thing!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

why would it produce casts? it has lost its flying bees. first cell should be due to emerge in the next two days at a rough guess even sooner if i am wrong. and they have more space than they had.
i fail to see the stimulus to produce a cast.

You also, obviously fail to know bee behaviour. Bees can and will fly after three days old - some at that age will go with the swarm - some older ones will stay.
If there are multiple QC's left you run the risk of a newly emerged virgin swarming and leaving the remaining QC's to emerge - this can carry on ad infinitum - it's what bees are instinctively geared to do - otherwise what is the point of creating loads of QC's. Space has got b*gger all to do with it.
The stimulus is the primeval instinct to make increase.
No point in discussing what an artificial swarm is - you have no idea, not my job to tell you.

 

[irishguy]

You also, obviously fail to know bee behaviour. Bees can and will fly after three days old - some at that age will go with the swarm - some older ones will stay.
If there are multiple QC's left you run the risk of a newly emerged virgin swarming and leaving the remaining QC's to emerge - this can carry on ad infinitum - it's what bees are instinctively geared to do - otherwise what is the point of creating loads of QC's. Space has got b*gger all to do with it.
The stimulus is the primeval instinct to make increase.
No point in discussing what an artificial swarm is - you have no idea, not my job to tell you.

So would you say my bees will still swarm even thou there's only 2 queen cells, one open and one closed. When 1 hatches, can she leave my hive even thou she has loads of space, food etc... I thought and was told by a few other bee keepers that once the hive has swarmed, the new queen should be ok in her new home once she's mated.

 

[irishguy]

I've given up on this thread.

Two different hives being considered, two different scenarios, one A/S, one not an A/S. Ond queen cell, lots of queen cells, all cells knocked down, hives moved several metres away for an A/S - whatever next!

Analogies to pilots that do a beginner course and go off flying fast jets without any exam or certificate of competency whatsoever. Beginner courses likened to what you can read up yourself (and should) at virtually zero cost, so clearly aimed at those that cannot read or simply to raise funds for, or the profile of, the BKA. You don't fly an aeroplane just by being present at a course. There is a lot of other work to do between the class sessions. Even then the budding pilot would not get their licence if every landing was so heavy it damaged the undercarriage! But a good analogy to demonstrate the technical worth of a course, to someone who thinks that is all they need to do - just turn up. Learn how to land after crashing the thing!

Why would you give up on the thread, all I can do is post what best I know. You have to remember I'm a newbie at this bee keeping so why would you jump ship when I'm here at a crucial time needing help.

 

[Finman]

I was thinking these 2 overwintered nucs would have gave me a nice amount of honey in my first year, looks like thats not going to be the case

You have the same bees in the hive. You have not lost any of your yield.

It is normal that strongest hives try to swarm/to escape.

You just do correctly the swarm fever cutting.

- You do AS with queen cell, when clipped queen has vanished.
- Flying bees move to the foundation hive
- Brood hive has several queen cells and you should take care that it may do a cast
- The hive has lost its flying bees but they will emerge more during a week when hive is waiting that queen cells emerge.

- When swarming hassle is over, you join the hive parts to get yield

 

[Finman]

You need a queen to do an A/S so what's the point

Queen is not needed. A brood frame with a queen cells is normal procedure when clipped wing queen has lost.

best for 2 hives in my opinion is take a nuc from it.

.

Vain to mix nuc making here. It does not help.

.