Initial thoughts on site - any advice appreciated

[HarryTuttle]

Hi,
I am still at the very early stages of deciding whether to start up my first hives next spring (possibly with two overwintered nucs in national hives).

I still have a lot to read up on and think about, but one of the first issues, which I am keen to get advice on, is the practicalities of the potential site.

I am fortunate enough to have a reasonable large, north facing garden, surrounded by other large garden plots and bordered with tall trees to the north, east and west.

So, there are plenty of natural barriers and any site would be well away from the neighbours.

I am considering fencing off the north west corner of the garden (picture below taken at about 3pm today), with 6 foot fencing and a gate, and placing two National hives in the centre (with 1 metre between hives and 1.5 metres all around to the fencing).

As the garden is long and north facing, it gets full sun in the morning and for most of the day, but I haven't yet figured out the shading on the planned 6 foot fencing, either in the summer or throughout the year.

The lawn runs the whole length of the garden and so will stop at the fenced area.

I am initially wondering

1) Do this seem a generally a good location for hives?
2) Does the spacing and fencing provide adequate separation of the bees and lawn users? (lawn is heavily used by kids aged 8+)

Obviously, I would encourage the kids to stay away from the fence, and make sure that nothing went over it, but I would want a setup where I was happy that they could be left without any need for constant supervision and I would not be worried about any incidents or anybody getting stung.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

 

[Sutty]

You could make the fence of eg 1" mesh (with thickish wire or whatever), bees will fly over it but will get the benefit of the sun & you'll be able to see what's going on.
I'd face the hives south a bit closer to the fence and a bit closer together & closer to the west border - gives you a bit of space for expansion for eg nucs for swarm control.

 

[ericbeaumont]

very early stages of deciding

Start now and gain experience.

lot to read up on and think about

That will be a permanent state of mind however long you live, so don't use it as a reason to defer.

6 foot fencing and a gate

Use 6" trellis, through which bees will not fly. It will offer small viewers an easy alternative to the small screen, but most importantly, allow good light and airflow and avoid damp in that area. Plenty of bindweed to add extra screening in summer, but clear it off before winter.

Two further adjustments: close off the whole width of the garden end, not just 4.5m, because you'll need to park kit and may even put in a storage shed. Secondly, position the hive .5m - 1m from the front boundary and give yourself a working distance of 2 - 2.5m to the back fence. Trust me, you'll need it.

 

[HarryTuttle]

Thanks to both of you for the very helpful advice.

With regards to the placement and spacing of the hives, I will certainly follow your advice and plan to have the hives closer to the front fence. I will also look at moving them west and/or expanding the site further east to allow for expansion and more storage area.

I really like the idea of trellis or mesh rather than a solid fence. Is there a size of gap that will start to encourage the bees to fly through rather than over? Sutty mentions 1 inch mesh, so I am just wondering if I should keep the gap in the mesh or trellis to around that size. I think I would prefer trellis, but want to make sure I don't get ones with gaps that are too big.

Eric mentioned starting earlier, which I would like to do so, but looking at suppliers of nucs, it looks like most are sold out for this year, which is why I had imagined that I would look at overwintered nucs next spring to get a head start.

Is there a way that I could start this year and, as a total beginner, still have a good chance of a successful start?

 

[blackcloud]

Ask for a 1:1 mentor at your local association.
You've missed the onslaught of swarm season so it's fairly stress free now until spring.

 

[Sutty]

I know my bees won't fly through a thick 1" mesh, they were unwilling to fly through a trellis, a few did, but might be more if the hive entrance was very close.

 

[user 6228]

"<lot to read up on and think about> That will be a permanent state of mind however long you live"
To make it even more complicated what you read/hear will often contradict its self and is/maybe completely wrong...
Not trying to depress you...

 

[ericbeaumont]

would prefer trellis, but want to make sure I don't get ones with gaps that are too big.

Years ago the NBU tested apiary barriers and found that 6" trellis worked.

I put up 6" trellis x 2m high at Dagenham Farm, where we get schools and volunteers and all sorts going right past. Never had a problem in five years.

 

[ericbeaumont]

suppliers of nucs

Your local BKA will know members who can supply local nucs at better prices.

Over-wintered nucs from a retailer will be the most expensive way to begin, because o-w nucs are in demand to replace winter losses.

 

[ericbeaumont]

a total beginner

Buy the Haynes Bee Manual.

https://www.axelbooks.com/products/...Q_sD7jveNk3csjhFJMl1HvLgBZ8gHejUaAk-AEALw_wcB

 

[Sutty]

Years ago the NBU tested apiary barriers and found that 6" trellis worked.

I put up 6" trellis x 2m high at Dagenham Farm, where we get schools and volunteers and all sorts going right past. Never had a problem in five years.

Good to know!
If an unexpected problem a small patch of smaller mesh on the trellis in front of the hive would sort it. Trellis would look better!

 

[ericbeaumont]

small patch of smaller mesh on the trellis in front of the hive

Or bindweed.

 

[HarryTuttle]

Thanks for all of the incredible advice.

I will certainly plan to use trellis and if the gaps prove a problem, work on reducing them with an added barrier.

I am also planning to make contact with my local BKA.

In terms of starting this year, it seems from the advice above that I might not be too late, but I had got the impression elsewhere that a new hive really needed to be started by June to get robust enough before Winter.

If I was able to get hives and nucs in, say, two weeks (which I think might be a bit of a push time-wise) would I still have time to get the colony built up (especially as I'm bound to not be a super effective keeper right off the bat)?

Also, most, if not all, of the suppliers I have seen, say that they are DASH accredited. How much do I need to worry about that, if I was able to get a nuc locally for a non-commercial supplier? Is there a much greater risk of disease or other issues?

 

[menteth]

Bee keeping is all about location (of hives).

In my experience. A bit of sun hitting the hive in winter, especially in the morning: This counts for a lot.

Winter sun and shelter from wind.

Bees need to get out in winter occasionally to do a poo.
If they can’t because it’s too cold, that can be a bad thing.

 

[drex]

You seem very keen and have read a bit. Initial outlay can be a lot of money. Have you actually handled some bees already.? It would be a shame if you spent £1k and found you did not like it.
I would suggest you think of a bit more space round the hives, and whether it might be better to use an out apiary site. I live next to a primary school with a 10 ft hedge between and will not keep bees here.
Consider going on an overwinter theory course with your local BKA , then handle some of their bees. As mentioned you will get bees much cheaper through them.
Read as much as you can. It is a wonderful craft, but so much to learn and hard work at first,but so enjoyable

 

[ericbeaumont]

new hive really needed to be started by June to get robust enough before Winter

Time enough to do so.

DASH accredited. How much do I need to worry about that

Means that the supplier is recognised by the NBU and trained and able to recognise and deal with disease.

Your BKA should have a competent beekeeper who will advise similarly and point you to a reliable local supplier.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Your BKA should have a competent beekeeper

Should but not always the case

 

[HarryTuttle]

I would suggest you think of a bit more space round the hives, and whether it might be better to use an out apiary site. I live next to a primary school with a 10 ft hedge between and will not keep bees here.

Once again, thanks to everyone for all of the advice.

Following drex's comment about not keeping bees next to the primary school, even with the 10ft hedge, I have spent a bit of time reading other threads here regarding the realities of keeping bees in the garden, the possibility of the mood of the colony getting very angry and and the need for, at least, a backup out apiary site.

On reflection, I think that the size of the garden (approx 150ft x 40ft), the lack of experience with reading colonies and the fact that kids will be playing out there unsupervised, I don't think it is right for me now.

I don't mind the work and the learning, but I would want to be 100% sure that a bad situation wouldn't occur with the kid's safety at risk and it seems that would be an unrealistic hope.

I think I was being a little naive regarding the situations that can occur.

All of the input is very much appreciated though, and I am still going to look to find a way to move forward, but perhaps not as quickly (or as locally) as I planned.

 

[drex]

Join your local bka, even as an associate . Enrol on their over winter theory course and if you like, follow on with the practical . Some then suggest you keep a colony for a year in their apiary.
It would satisfy your desire to get into bees, be considerate of your family, and more importantly you would learn ( at least the basics) of how to do it. This would be the common and sensible way into beekeeping.

 

[ericbeaumont]

150ft x 40ft

want to be 100% sure

That size of garden, with the high hedges and apiary layout you propose, is far and away beyond what would be adequate for 2 colonies, .

Wherever you go, 100% certainty will never, ever be achieved, but if you're keen to start, do it soon and enjoy the experience. In the meantime, by all means look for an out-apiary, but don't let worry get the better of your original plan.