Hybrid bees put Native Carnolians on endangered list

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icanhopit said:
https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/biolog.2017.72.issue-11/biolog-2017-0149/biolog-2017-0149.xml

Some salutatory reading whilst one awaits spring and the first inspections!

Expectations of flack from the Cockkerpoo brigade?

Mytten da
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I'm not sure we're reading the same article. The ABSTRACT talks about legal requirements for breeding pure carnica and microsatellite analysis of the sub-species. If there is a variation from one end of the country to the other, is this unexpected?

While on the subject: I am getting really fed up with people citing abstracts as though they gave a thorough analysis of the topic. You can't understand the topic simply by reading an abstract. If you can't read the whole article, there is little point in citing it
 
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B+. said:
I'm not sure we're reading the same article. The ABSTRACT talks about legal requirements for breeding pure carnica and microsatellite analysis of the sub-species. If there is a variation from one end of the country to the other, is this unexpected?

While on the subject: I am getting really fed up with people citing abstracts as though they gave a thorough analysis of the topic. You can't understand the topic simply by reading an abstract. If you can't read the whole article, there is little point in citing it
Click to expand...

I get sent abstracts by my University... it is up to oneself if you care to read the complete version or not.
If one is not connected to a University library research department that sends out the citations... up to the individual if to open the document or not?

Obviously some would not want to read of research that may go against their own agenda.

Yeghes da
 
B+. said:
. If there is a variation from one end of the country to the other, is this unexpected?
Click to expand...

Well, seeing as Slovakia was only formed by splitting Czechoslovakia in two a few years back, my guess is that there's probably a wide view of what, actually is "Native"?

It also gets far too cold over there in winter to be taking an interest in anything outside, lads at work reckon winter temps can be as low as -23 for several days when they get a cold snap. How would all the townies survive or get to work here if we had that?

School Heads would be quoting the "Safety Elf" & supermarket shelves would be empty!
 
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icanhopit said:
I get sent abstracts by my University... it is up to oneself if you care to read the complete version or not.
If one is not connected to a University library research department that sends out the citations... up to the individual if to open the document or not?

Obviously some would not want to read of research that may go against their own agenda.

Yeghes da
Click to expand...

My point was that an abstract is ONLY an abstract. It will give you a "flavour" of the article, but, it's only a short summary. The results/conclusions section are usually far more useful, but that always assumes you understand the context. You can only get that from the discussion section. I have noticed an increasing number of posts on this forum give a link to an abstract (as though that supports their interpretation of the work). However, unless the reader can read the full article, it adds no value at all. These links are not free access, so, they might as well not be there at all.
My reading of the abstract does not support the title you put on this thread at all. The title of the paper is "Genetic structure of Apis mellifera carnica in Slovakia based on microsatellite DNA polymorphism". There was nothing in the abstract to suggest that Amc is "on the endangered list".
 
MartinL said:
my guess is that there's probably a wide view of what, actually is "Native"?
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:iagree:
The same is true here (except they have some legal restrictions on breeding there)

A better focus would be on what is considered part of the breeding population.
 
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Have to agree that abstracts can be ... well abstract!

Long paper to completely digest, but my take was that the A m carnolia population was being hybridised with A m macedonia and A m ligusta to the extent that the native population of pure carniolian bees was no longer pure... from the bayasiarian statistical work.
Unlike the German studies that showed similar retrogression with inclusions of exotic genes the sample numbers were low ( probably due to high cost of genome analyses)

Nos da
 
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Poland tried to breed Caucasian bees long time, but Carniolan bee conqured the breeding genome.
.
 
icanhopit said:
I get sent abstracts by my University... it is up to oneself if you care to read the complete version or not.
If one is not connected to a University library research department that sends out the citations... up to the individual if to open the document or not?

Obviously some would not want to read of research that may go against their own agenda.

Yeghes da
Click to expand...

An unnecessary reply when the vast majority of forum members would have to pay £23 to see why you have linked to this paper.
 
icanhopit said:
I get sent abstracts by my University... it is up to oneself if you care to read the complete version or not.
Click to expand...

Reading the full version of a scientific paper is often restricted to individuals affiliated with Universities, like PhD students/ lecturers etc.
When I retired I lost my full access rights.
As I understand you are registered as a PhD student then you will have full access through your University account. Perhaps you could download a pdf and link it for the less fortunate?
 
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If those papers have something usefull to an ordaniary beekeeper, it will spread soon for free in internet.
 
Interesting is the pressure to import other bees here to spoil our carnies. Most want to protect our bees but one idiot can make damage that thousands can't repare..
 
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Nothing spoils Carnies. It has so vast natural living area: Slovenia, Austria, Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine Russia...

I understand Buckfast on the side of Carniolans, because Carnica is mad to swarm and Buckfast is slow to swarm.
 
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interesting article. Last July I saw black bees in Northern Romania that were described by locals as "native" yet clearly were not Carniolan. A bit of research suggested they are intergrades between Macedonica and Carniola.
 
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As long as I have kept bees, hybridization and inbreeding have changes all the time my apiary to unwanted directions. I have had to select and try new bee strains all the time to keep production level high.

Unselected native bees are those which spoils the genome of apiary. They are swarmy small colonies living here and there in human buildings.


What is selection and breeding, if original native are the best. .. Such dreaming. And you never get ridd of local mongrels.
 
Beefriendly said:
Reading the full version of a scientific paper is often restricted to individuals affiliated with Universities, like PhD students/ lecturers etc.
When I retired I lost my full access rights.
As I understand you are registered as a PhD student then you will have full access through your University account. Perhaps you could download a pdf and link it for the less fortunate?
Click to expand...

Retired.... My supervisor retired last year, and he is younger than me!
They never let you go!

I would not download a pdf from anothers intellectual property when permission has not been granted.

Yeghes da
 
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