How many of a swarm do you leave?

[Angularity]

I seem to be always leaving a few bees behind when I collect a swarm, no matter how long I wait for them to march into the skep. Is it OK to leave a few spare flying bees, with an assurance that they'll find their way home, or should I be aiming to collect each last one even if the great majority are overheating in their box?

 

[enrico]

Don't be too fussy. In the scheme of things a few bees won't make much difference as long as one isn't the queen!
They may not find their way home but ..... you have to draw a line.
E

 

[birdsandbees]

It depends on the location and how long they have been there, if they are local then I'll leave the box and go back at dusk to shut in and remove them, if they haven't swarmed far (as I had recently when I could see the chimney they came from) then I'm not overly fussy, even those bees that haven't orientated are likely to find their way home.
If they have been out for a few days then there's less chance of them finding their way back so I'll give them a lot longer.

The other consideration is that leaving a bunch of bees behind that no longer have a purpose and can't find their way home could be problematic and doesn't look very professional IMO.

 

[Angularity]

The other consideration is that leaving a bunch of bees behind that no longer have a purpose and can't find their way home could be problematic and doesn't look very professional IMO.

That's what concerns me. I tend to say I'll be back in 24 hours if they're still there. I've only had to do it once.

 

[Vortex]

Because I'm at work all day I generally only deal with swarms in the evening. Often I'll knock them into a box and then wait till dusk before leaving, but even then you won't necessarily get every bee. I did this with a swarm at my home apiary, waited till after dark then moved the box. The following morning there were 20 or so bees buzzing around where they had been, so you're almost never going to get all of them, but leaving as few as practicably possible is my aim, and that's always a judgement call.

 

[maz0]

Excerpt from a link I cant post right now due to new user restrictions:

If the new nest site is within the previous foraging range, the bees learn the position of the new site while still retaining knowledge of the previously acquired foraging range. Interestingly, bees from a newly established natural swarm always return to the new swarm site. Although it is not clear why, there is something about their experience of being in a swarm that supresses the drive to return to the old nest (Robinson and Dyer 1993). In the same study, the authors showed that if the new nest is removed while the foragers are out (within the first week), they will eventually return to their natal nest; thus illustrating that the bees will learn new positions while maintaining the knowledge of the position of the previous site. Similarly, when a beekeeper captures a swarm and takes it to another site, any bees that get lost or remain at the bivouac site (where the swarm grouped in a beard/ball) will eventually return to the natal nest. It is in bee’s interest to be able to locate its natal nest for a number of reasons, such as if the swarm fails due to bad weather or bad choice of site.

So judging from that, it doesn't appear to be something worth worrying about, if you have the majority of them in the nuc box.

 

[Vortex]

Be interested in a link to the paper when you can post it.

can you not type the link out long hand?? (a little awkward I know or us a text editor and subsitite "-" for "." then paste it).

 

[maz0]

https://www.arnia.co.uk/honey-bee-orientation/

Seems that was enough posts to enable the link posting

I came across it while researching how to move my hives 100 meters in the same garden without taking them 3 miles away. I moved 2 hives successfully with 1 left to go.

 

[birdsandbees]

Although I can't reference the info, I have also read that a good number of the bees in a swarm have never left the 'Natal' colony, therefore without having oriented to that site and only leaving when a swarm issues how would they return?
I've no doubt a good many can find their way back but I still don't think it's very professional to grab and run as some seem to do, I have been asked to go to a swarm site post removal as there were still a good few bees there and they were getting a bit tetchy with anyone who got too close.

 

[EJackson]

It is unfortunate that some bees may be lost, but as has already been stated by other experienced beekeepers, a few bees will make no difference. While I personally try to save as many as possible, there is a point where you need to consider the health of the colony and prioritise getting them in order rather than spending time picking up stragglers.