how long will swarm wait to emerge

[newportbuzz]

hi all.
I have two hives which are preparing to swarm. i have well charged abundant swarm cells at the 1-2 day old larvae stage during the last inspection . the cells are due to seal on saterday(ish), i intend to let them swarm as i want to stock a topbar hive to see what its like to run.

I have time to watch for and hunt and get the swarm and other than them deciding to camp 60ft up a tree they will not escape me.

but the weather forecast is not good here.
So this is my question.

how long will the swarm wait till it emerges? And will they be likely to try and dodge the weather or wait till some better weather happens along?

thanks all

 

[drstitson]

for safety sake why not AS into the TBH??? you don't NEED a frame of brood with the queen!!! (and more natural for them not to have one IMHO, which is what you're looking for in TBH type beekeeping.

 

[newportbuzz]

fair point.
I should mention i am breaking up the swarming colonys to make nucs and i also am not as convinced you actualy get a correct balance of bees in an AS.
You get foragers which can reverty to wax drawing but i think in a proper swarm you will proberly get more wax drawing bees. again just my personal choice for this instance.

If another hives thinks about swarming after this much different measures will be taken(this hive has been pushed to swarming by design). infact the only reason i was going into the two hives in question was to force them to swarm by removing all their space. they just got there 4 days before i did so i am quite happy they seem to be insync with me on one thing at least.


this does divert away from the original question tho of how long they will stay in the hive from when the cell is sealed assuming bad/inclemant weather.

 

[susbees]

The Americans populate their htbhs with packages which is far from the natural state and they do just fine. I've done two with a Nat nuc and a Modified Dadant nuc as frame crops and they did just fine too.

The natural process here has been well messed up by the weather with one recent prime swarm falling into an impenetrable bramble thicket and dying of hypothermia (shame the beekeeper didn't phone me or anyone else with more experience ) and swarms clinging on under OMFs presumably having tried to change their minds....

...so an AS would be safer...your swarm may well erupt and head over the fields and moors sharpish: we lost one last year like that, settled for barely 30 seconds and up and away over the wood at the end of the apiary. Make sure the tbh is perfectly flat and give them an initial guide or two from drawn comb or foundation...and not too many frames at once as it's cool still.

 

[Chris Luck]

When they are busting to go they will take any break in the weather and can even go in light rain, and I agree, I prefer to take what nature gives however imperfect that may be, and work with that.

Chris

 

[newportbuzz]

lovely thanks and i havent ignored the posibility that they could escape my grasp and as such have got almost 20 bait hives within a 2 mile radius. thanks for tip on perfectly level ground for the TBH. heres hopin for fun with luck they will come out tomoro. ill see if i can get some good photos as its not often you would be siting waiting for them to come out.

 

[Poly Hive]

I will be blunt and say if you are thinking you can rely on bait hives you are not going to be happy.

PH

 

[Erichalfbee]

but i think in a proper swarm you will proberly get more wax drawing bees.

Quite possibly but I can say that My AS drew nearly a whole 14 x 12 in 6 days and the weather has been cold (lots of top insulation and the tray in)

 

[coraesgairwen]

I live in Lampeter over 1000ft and mine swarmed today up a larch tree (30ft). I never expected this !! and it was overcast and cold. I managed to hive it tonight in the sheep shed. The temperature never went over 12c today. So despite the cold weather I'll have to go through my hives tomorrow. So, I think you might need to act swiftly. Good luck.

 

[FreeFall]

I managed to hive it tonight in the sheep shed.

Now THAT is a big swarm

 

[newportbuzz]

well thanks for all the answers . none to the actual question but none the less thanks.

with regards the bait hives i am not relying on them they are a back up assuming i fail to catch the swarm or some other event occurs. i have the next few days secured off to wait on the swarm and i am fully aware it is a reasonable risk but how do you learn unless you try new things.

 

[bump3r67]

 

[Polyanwood]

how long will the swarm wait till it emerges? And will they be likely to try and dodge the weather or wait till some better weather happens along?

Sorry we did not answer. What you are planning to do does not really make sense. It would be much easier on the bees, particularly given the poor weather, if you did not let them swarm and chase after them. They could either abscond beyond your grasp, or worse still go out in inclement weather and die.

If you have views about the balance of what kind of bees you want, you can manage this.

Sometimes they will even swarm in the rain. Sometimes they will swarm when it is cold. Usually they swarm between 11am and 2pm. They will probably swarm from the day the cell is sealed, i.e. today onwards.

Good Luck

 

[susbees]

Sorry we did not answer. What you are planning to do does not really make sense. It would be much easier on the bees, particularly given the poor weather, if you did not let them swarm and chase after them. They could either abscond beyond your grasp, or worse still go out in inclement weather and die.

 

[Chris Luck]

....and I disagree needless to say - but it's your call always.

What we have is a fundamental difference in approach but no one can say what is right and what is wrong - only what they would do, and no one should ever feel intimidated into behaving in any given manner. The fact that we can do something doesn't mean we have to.

The more natural minimum intervention methods work well for me, in fact equally as well as it works for the intensive manipulators. If you have the time and only one or two hives to watch it should be straightforward and in 99 cases out of 100 the bees will gather within 30 metres of the hive and very rarely will they move on until the next day, certainly if you are prepared and have all that you need to hand you will have time to box them - even in the rain.

Chris

 

[BeeJayBee]

Here's how they used to catch swarms from skeps

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7M1X0bWYyo&feature=plcp[/ame]

 

[newportbuzz]

well to address some further points.
i do think a typical AS doesnt provide a corect balance of bees to either the swarm or the hive.

look back on all the threads about trying to find whee a swarm came from. the parent hive will still be flying and working and shall still have abundant bees.

in an AS the parent hive will have almost no foragers save for the few who matured and flew on the day of the AS

in the swarm i feel (but dont know) that a larger proportion of younger bees which would not normaly fly but are capabale to fly will be present where as unless you put all the bees flying during an AS this cant be possible for an AS swarm.

this is being done quite concously and also in conjunction with a freind who has a similar sized hive which he is going to AS we are going to compare for a lot of points not least ease of manpulation, build up of swarm, comb drawing, and other variables which arnt breed specific but swarm specific.


anyway this thread is gettin a bit out of hand.

all i asked is how long will the swarm wait assuming inclement weather.
the latest i have personaly seen is chewed cap stage. which if i am correct is in 7 days or so. but will they wait later than this say to cells held shut stage or even to virgins on warpath stage??

ill keep every one up to date with how it all goes.
btw my neirest neighbour is half a mile away max 14 houses within 1 mile radius and have permision form all land owners to persue bees on their land.
this is thought out and the risk of losing a couple of hundred quids worth of bees has been weighed and equaly having to possibly remove them or kill them from someones house has also been weighed.

so if anyone is reading this in the future i would advise caution about this. its not a small undertaking and has lots of possibilitys to annoy neighbours and make you feel down when you make a mistake which can cost your bees lives.

 

[newportbuzz]

It has become a mute issue.
The hive for the AS has torn down the queencells as has the hive for the swarm.

Ohh well at least it heralds the start of queenrearing for this year for me and our locals. 5 days early by rights on when we expected to be doing it.