Honey extraction

[Smokeyred]

How would you extract honey if you did not own an extractor.

 

[alanf]

Many associations hire or loan extractors, some even have equipped rooms that you can book for day or so. Otherwise there's the "crush and strain" method, on a wired frame scrape off the comb back to foundation and drain the mixed honey and wax in a sieve.

 

[Smokeyred]

Many associations hire or loan extractors, some even have equipped rooms that you can book for day or so. Otherwise there's the "crush and strain" method, on a wired frame scrape off the comb back to foundation and drain the mixed honey and wax in a sieve.

If it is crystallized, would you need to heat it?

 

[enrico]

There are loads of ways. It depends on quantities. If just a few frames, decap and place over bowl, honey will run out. Or you could scrape the lot down to foundation, heat gently and run honey off from under wax when cool again, but watch temperatures don't get too hot, if it is crystallised you could make a warming cabinet and heat it gently for it to go runny again and then as above. Or ....... You could feed it back to the bees and extract it next year!?!

 

[Smokeyred]

There are loads of ways. It depends on quantities. If just a few frames, decap and place over bowl, honey will run out. Or you could scrape the lot down to foundation, heat gently and run honey off from under wax when cool again, but watch temperatures don't get too hot, if it is crystallised you could make a warming cabinet and heat it gently for it to go runny again and then as above. Or ....... You could feed it back to the bees and extract it next year!?!

Any idea to what temperature you can heat cone without damaging the honey?

 

[itma]

If it is crystallized, would you need to heat it?

Honey that has crystallised ("granulated") in the comb is beyond simple extraction.

One use for it is to just feed it back to the bees. Uncapping and water-misting of the granulated honey helps the bees tackle it more easily.
But its kinda late in the year for that.
Saving it for spring (or late winter) feeding is one possibility.
Another is for feeding nucs or swarms.
But this means protecting the frames from wax moth for a long time. (Different subject, covered elsewhere on here.)

The other alternative is to melt the whole thing and, after cooling, separate the solidified wax layer from the liquid honey.
However this is VERY hard to do well - it requires VERY precise temperature control to prevent serious spoilage of the honey -- after which it can only be used/sold as "bakers honey".
There is kit made for this specific controlled melting - the trade name is "Apimelter".
// See for example http://www.wilara.lt/en/223-2207/dana-api-melter
A local commercial beek has such a piece of kit (costing thousands) and is prepared (for a consideration) to melt out the odd super-full of granulated honey for hobbyists -- who have usually been too slow in removing Oil Seed Rape (OSR) honey in summer. That stuff granulates quickly!
But to melt out the honey REALLY needs the proper kit, otherwise you will simply make a horrible mess and spoil the honey.
Worth asking around your Association to see if anyone has (or knows of) such a setup locally.

 

[REDWOOD]

Potato masher

 

[bobh]

You could cut it up, comb and all and enjoy it on hot toast. The wax is quite edible.

 

[Smokeyred]

Very interesting. Do you have an idea of what temperature you can go to with the apimeter before it becomes 'baker's honey'?

The first season as a beekeeper, i managed, by sheer good fortune, to get the (rape) honey off before it crystallized. The following year i was too late. Do you think that if the hives are inspected weekly, and the supers (langstroth medium) taken off at the right time, that you could reasonably expect to avoid the crystallization problem?

 

[Smokeyred]

Potato masher

Would this work with cystallized honey?

 

[Smokeyred]

You could cut it up, comb and all and enjoy it on hot toast. The wax is quite edible.

That's an idea, especially if toast from the best bread in the world - from France!

 

[Oscarmonster]

To process granulated OSR honey I have 2, 10 litre honey buckets, one sits on top of the other. The upper one has many 6-7mm holes in the bottom. The lower one has most of the lid cut out and a honey valve.
I fill the top bucket with the broken up combs and put in my warming cabinet overnight at 47degrees. The following morning I mash the warmed comb/honey mix. By the evening it has passed into the lower bucket. I then turn the temperature down to 35degrees and leave to settle overnight. Then filter.
Not ideal, better to extract before granulation, but time has been short this summer so I have had to extract 12 supers full this way.

 

[itma]

Very interesting. Do you have an idea of what temperature you can go to with the apimeter before it becomes 'baker's honey'?
...

Beeswax and honey are not chemically simple entities.

Beeswax begins melting in the low 60's centigrade.
Exposure to that temperature will spoil honey in a matter of hours, hence the Apimelter's design concept of getting the melted stuff out of the hot zone as soon as possible.

All honeys, having different glucose/fructose ratios, water content, enzyme levels etc will react slightly differently to heat.
But its not simply the maximum temperature reached that matters - the time at that temperature matters just as much.
"Bakers honey" is honey that fails to meet the criteria for proper Honey. Technically it is a matter of HMF and Diastase levels and such. The amount of deterioration permissible will depend on what you started with.
Practically, it tastes poor, looks darker and smells different (cooked) after overheating.



OSR really needs to be taken off the hive well before it is fully capped - and then extracted promptly.
A refractometer (for measuring water content) can be had from Hong Kong for under £20. Much easier for the inexperienced than trying "shake tests".

 

[enrico]

The secret with OSR honey is to take the super off as soon as it is full and it passes the shake test. That is...take a frame of honey that is uncapped, hold it flat over the hive and shake it once in a downward direction hard. If the honey flies out of the frame it is not ready. If it stays put take it away and extract immediately. This is the only way to extract OSR before granulation. Even then you may get some left in the frames but when you feed that back to the bees for cleaning it never seems to crystallise as much the second time round! These are tips that come with experience and soon will be second nature. Rape honey just needs you to be there, ready, and not going on holiday!
Finally... Rape honey does not need to be capped! Oh! And I put it straight into jars otherwise it will crystallise in the bucket and then you are back to square one! It is easier to warm jars as you need them. I stick them in the microwave without the lid just enough to be able to put a knife in and use it like that. A bit like fudge! Lovely stuff
E

 

[itma]

The secret with OSR honey is to take the super off as soon as it is full and it passes the shake test. That is...take a frame of honey that is uncapped, hold it flat over the hive and shake it once in a downward direction hard. If the honey flies out of the frame it is not ready. If it stays put take it away and extract immediately. ...

Finally... Rape honey does not need to be capped! Oh! And I put it straight into jars otherwise it will crystallise in the bucket and then you are back to square one! It is easier to warm jars as you need them. I stick them in the microwave ...

The last association demo I saw of a 'shake test' turned into a demo of comb salvage after it was discovered that frame didn't have wired foundation ...
A refractometer is so much simpler and less open to interpretation.

Enrico's non-treatment of OSR honey is not mainstream. There are lots of articles here and elsewhere on how to produce proper 'creamed' honey from OSR.

 

[Smokeyred]

Beeswax and honey are not chemically simple entities.

Beeswax begins melting in the low 60's centigrade.
Exposure to that temperature will spoil honey in a matter of hours, hence the Apimelter's design concept of getting the melted stuff out of the hot zone as soon as possible.

All honeys, having different glucose/fructose ratios, water content, enzyme levels etc will react slightly differently to heat.
But its not simply the maximum temperature reached that matters - the time at that temperature matters just as much.
"Bakers honey" is honey that fails to meet the criteria for proper Honey. Technically it is a matter of HMF and Diastase levels and such. The amount of deterioration permissible will depend on what you started with.
Practically, it tastes poor, looks darker and smells different (cooked) after overheating.



OSR really needs to be taken off the hive well before it is fully capped - and then extracted promptly.
A refractometer (for measuring water content) can be had from Hong Kong for under £20. Much easier for the inexperienced than trying "shake tests".

Dear Itma
I understand what you are saying. However what if the refractometer tells us that the water quantity is too high.....can the water in the honey be reduced in some way, or is it a case of scrapping it or feeding it back to the bees?

 

[Smokeyred]

The secret with OSR honey is to take the super off as soon as it is full and it passes the shake test. That is...take a frame of honey that is uncapped, hold it flat over the hive and shake it once in a downward direction hard. If the honey flies out of the frame it is not ready. If it stays put take it away and extract immediately. This is the only way to extract OSR before granulation. Even then you may get some left in the frames but when you feed that back to the bees for cleaning it never seems to crystallise as much the second time round! These are tips that come with experience and soon will be second nature. Rape honey just needs you to be there, ready, and not going on holiday!
Finally... Rape honey does not need to be capped! Oh! And I put it straight into jars otherwise it will crystallise in the bucket and then you are back to square one! It is easier to warm jars as you need them. I stick them in the microwave without the lid just enough to be able to put a knife in and use it like that. A bit like fudge! Lovely stuff
E

Thanks for that Enrico. That clears things up in my mind. I remember once getting rape honey absolutely right and then next time it was a bit if a disaster! At least I know now not what to do.

 

[REDWOOD]

I don't know to be honest As I have only seen it done with normal honey but compression would be the same sort of process as a heather press

 

[Smokeyred]

To process granulated OSR honey I have 2, 10 litre honey buckets, one sits on top of the other. The upper one has many 6-7mm holes in the bottom. The lower one has most of the lid cut out and a honey valve.
I fill the top bucket with the broken up combs and put in my warming cabinet overnight at 47degrees. The following morning I mash the warmed comb/honey mix. By the evening it has passed into the lower bucket. I then turn the temperature down to 35degrees and leave to settle overnight. Then filter.
Not ideal, better to extract before granulation, but time has been short this summer so I have had to extract 12 supers full this way.

Does the wax float to the surface after the mixture has passed into the second bucket?

 

[Oscarmonster]

99% of the wax stays in the top bucket as you are not melting the wax. The small amount of wax that gets through, floats to the top, so it doesn't clog the filters.
I did get a third prize for liquid honey produced this way at our honey show. However there were only 4 entry's and one was disqualified for having to much moisture! He didn't have to award a prize though.