Honey everywhere but where I want it

[BeeJuice]

My bees are storing plenty of honey but they are storing it in the brood box(s) more than the supers.

A couple of my hives are double BB nationals. The lower BB is filling up with honey and the outside frames of the higher BB and full of stores. Some honey makes it to the supers but only a small proportion.

Is there something I can do to stop this? What have I done to cause this? Or is it just normal?

As it is my first year 'normal' is hard to recognise.

Many thanks

 

[sbisme]

I would suspect that the queen is not upto laying at a rate to fill a double BB so they are just back filling with stores so I would look to reducing the brood to a single BB,,, BUT I'm a beginner too so wait for a beek with more experience to come along,

 

[sugarbush]

If you have a queen excluder on than take it off, often they don't like to pass through it full of nectar. Think of it like Santa squeezing down a chimney. Its a tight fit when your belly is full and often they will pass honey through it to another bee rather than squeezing through themselves.

 

[Moggs]

How many frames of brood? They won't use super space until they need it. The brood nest is surrounded by an arch of pollen then an outer and upper arch of stores. Bees won't put stores in a super just for the benefit of a beekeeper! Sounds as if you have way too much brood space.


I've had that déjà vu before...

 

[Poly Hive]

If bees full of nectar do not like to pass through excluders then please explain the 220 lbs of comb honey I had above said excluder two years ago on the one hive. Oh and whilst at it how is it I have had two tons a year for ten years above exclulders?

I await with some interest.

PH

 

[Gilberdyke John]

If you have a queen excluder on than take it off, often they don't like to pass through it full of nectar. Think of it like Santa squeezing down a chimney. Its a tight fit when your belly is full and often they will pass honey through it to another bee rather than squeezing through themselves.

With a new hive it's sometimes difficult to get the bees to draw out comb on the foundation in the super above a queen excluder, especially if there is more than enough space for stores in the brood levels. Try removing the queen excluder for a while, sufficient to allow unfettered access by the bees but unless you want the queen to lay in the super keep a close eye on developments and replace the queen excluder as soon as comb is drawn, making sure the queen is below the excluder when you do.
My first ever colony absolutely refused to draw the super until I took the qe away for a couple of weeks. Once they had started and the hive took on a used smell there was no further problem.
Now I put an empty frame of drawn comb in new boxes to make them smell of occupation.
Works for me.

 

[BeeJuice]

How many frames of brood? They won't use super space until they need it. The brood nest is surrounded by an arch of pollen then an outer and upper arch of stores. Bees won't put stores in a super just for the benefit of a beekeeper! Sounds as if you have way too much brood space.

There are maybe 6 frames of brood. Same top BB as lower BB.

Sounds like they have more space than I need. How do I reduce? Do I just put all the frames with brood together in one BB? What do I do with the deep frames with stores and honey?

Maybe I should just leave alone and let then eat the honey in the BB through the winter. I'll just have to accept a smaller harvest this year...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

yep, looks like they don't need to use the super when there's plenty of room in the brood box - why move it all the way up there.
I'm with PH on the queen excluder - never had bees 'reluctant' to pass through it to the supers whether drawn or just foundation, when they want to go up there they will.

 

[Moggs]

There are maybe 6 frames of brood. Same top BB as lower BB.



Sounds like they have more space than I need. How do I reduce? Do I just put all the frames with brood together in one BB? What do I do with the deep frames with stores and honey?



Maybe I should just leave alone and let then eat the honey in the BB through the winter. I'll just have to accept a smaller harvest this year...

Are you thinking about the bees? Do they really need a double brood arrangement? If you start to pull a large brood nest to bits you may cause all sorts of problems, especially as it sounds as if the frames carry nectar too. Could be counterproductive. If the deeps contain substantial amounts of brood then I would be inclined to leave well alone until the brood nest diminishes naturally.
Be careful, it's easy to get fixated on the need to take honey, especially if you have one or few hives. The bees have made the most of the space that you have given them. I would be drawing on this year's experience and optimise the hive for next year, though it really does depend on exactly what you see at the moment. I'm visualising two deeps with large amount of brood (?) = many bees at the peak of season = many mouths to feed, especially if the nectar stops coming in.


I've had that déjà vu before...

 

[sugarbush]

I don't put excluders on any of my hives. We call them honey excluders in the US. Hobby keepers often use them because they come with the beginner kits they like to buy. Keepers on the more commercial side of things don't use them for their intended purpose. We use them to find a queen sometimes by shaking the colony through an excluder, but outside of that it really doesn't have a commercial application.

Remove it and see how much more honey you get.

 

[snelgrove]

Remove it and see how much more honey you get.[/QUOTE]

Here you would get extremley tall hives with chimney effect brood, and alot less honey

 

[Motobiman]

. We use them to find a queen sometimes by shaking the colony through an excluder.

For a newbie, can you explain how that works?

 

[B+.]

If bees full of nectar do not like to pass through excluders then please explain the 220 lbs of comb honey I had above said excluder two years ago on the one hive.

QE's work - http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3744

Removing the QE will probably just get you brood in the super. They will move it up when they are ready.

 

[Motobiman]

QE's work - http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3744

Removing the QE will probably just get you brood in the super. They will move it up when they are ready.

And the key word is?

Probably, probably.

 

[B+.]

For a newbie, can you explain how that works?

Watch this Michael Palmer demonstration (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUSMXpeuUFE)

 

[B+.]

And the key word is?

Probably, probably.

The queen tries to lay in the warmest part of the hive. Usually that is at the highest point she can access but also in the centre. That is why beekeepers typically describe the chimney effect of brood going up through the centre of the hive

 

[maddydog]

How about reducing down to one deep? All the brood plus queen in the bottom box then a q excluder and the other deep above that. Doesn't matter if there Is a bit of brood in the upper deep but try and avoid drone. Extract the deep frames later on.

 

[B+.]

How about reducing down to one deep?

I wouldn't recommend this because they need somewhere to store fresh nectar until they are ready to move it up into the supers. If you reduce the space available in the brood area, the queen will have nowhere to lay and they may start swarming preparations.

 

[Motobiman]

Thanks B+

Clearly as simple as it sounds . . .

 

[Motobiman]

The queen tries to lay in the warmest part of the hive. Usually that is at the highest point she can access but also in the centre. That is why beekeepers typically describe the chimney effect of brood going up through the centre of the hive

Understood, as she fills the space at the top does she not just move down the chimney and the cells above are filled with stores after they hatch though?

Like in the wild.